TM G17 vs KSC G17...

Lakonian · April 29th, 2008, 00:17

Uhm. Yeah, so I may be switching pistol platforms once again, as I'm getting extremely tired of some 1911/2011 related issues. So far, looks like the Glock series is getting the $$ when I get back from my little trip...

BUT! There's a problem...

I've heard KSC glocks have really crappy obscure internals that break easily, and cannot be replaced.. But are really nice when working.

HOWEVER, I've also heard the same for TM glocks....

So, which would be better for parts longevity, parts availability , and general maintenance? Performance is tied up from what I've heard, but if you have a contrary opinion, let me know.

Thanks

RacingManiac · April 29th, 2008, 00:39

Had a KSC G19, reliable little gun. never needed to take it apart until a piece in the hop-up chamber broke. Bitch to replace, but once fixed it was shooting happily again. I think mine had a upgraded hammer spring, as well as recoil spring and ther generic KSC metal kit. Shoots hard and kicks hard. The HW frame feels like a dream. KSC G17 I've heard are a bit less robust than the smaller G19(some parts that are metal on the 19s are plastic on the 17), and does not come with HW frame. I think for Glocks KSC have probably as big a aftermarket as regular TMs.

TM's new Glock I've heard is quite nice. Like all TMs there are plenty of aftermarket stuff out there for it. The blowback system I think is similar to their Hi-Capa's(though not using common parts), so coming from Hi-Capa I think you might be ok for servicing. Though I've heard the hammer/trigger mech for either brand is a bitch to work on. I remember doing hammer spring for my old TM G26 and it was quite intimidating....TM definitely don't have the HW frame like the KSC, and from most of the TM plastic parts I've seen I think they won't feel as good....Hop-up should be better on TM as usual. I've also heard the TM is a tad wider than the real-steel version, thus making it harder to fit molded holster, though truth be told the TM G26 I've had fits the Fobus perfectly...

I think if I were to buy another glock I'll still buy a KSC. They make a shit load of them and I guess its for a reason. The newer "race pistol" version of the G34 and G35 now comes with HW frame as well, which for me seems the most attractive as I am always sorta intrigued by the long slide Glocks....and I do miss the G19 I've had...

dpvu · April 29th, 2008, 00:43

http://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/revie...7vsmarui17.htm

This review is quite in-depth but it doesn't really have a lot about longevity and availability of parts. Still helpful in making a decision.

tunabreath · April 29th, 2008, 03:48

The TM hopup is faaaaar superior in design, and very slightly superior in performance. I don't know where you heard KSC internals are finicky though, they're very reliable and sturdy, with the exception of maybe the floating valve (easily replaced with readily available metal ones) and the selector on G18Cs.

If I were to buy a glock for the first time (again), I'd take the TM unless I wanted long mags (which, I suppose, is just a matter of time).

This might help:
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...455&hl=\glock\

Tex · April 29th, 2008, 03:57

IF and only IF you are set on the 17 then I too would go for the TM. I feel dirty saying it now after so many years of recomending KSC but for the 17 yes TM. But the KSC Glock 19 is far far better then both the TM and KSC Glock 17's.

as for internals on KSC the only part I could never find was 83/87 but theres a thread in the sales right now with a small amount of them cheap but it's getting smaller by the hour. but I only ever had one break and it was the 17's

years of use out of my KSC's.

Lakonian · April 29th, 2008, 04:10

I don't mind the G19, actually, after reading about it's heavyweight frame, I might go for that instead.

The other thing I'm really concerned about is having one small obscure part decommission my pistol, and then having to sell it because the part is no longer in production... If 83/87 is going to keep my gun out of the action, I might aswell look at TM. Plus, that Guarder steel slide is a nice bonus...

Amos · April 29th, 2008, 05:10

It seems many part 87's have flooded the market recently

My buddy's glock 17 will be back up and running after over 2 years of being stashed away in a case!

Tex · April 29th, 2008, 06:01

If you are considering the 19 I would hate to see you go TM 17 because of one silly part (A part that in 2 Glock 19's and 5 years or so I never needed). After years of use with both models by KSC I would go with the 19 over either 17 anyday. plus ASC now has a member who can get KSC factory parts. Hell I would just grab one or two parts now when you don't need it but know you can get it. Price of a 6 pack of beer for peice of mind you can't go wrong.
Coming from a long time KSC Glock fan the TM glock 17 is great and it is better then the KSC 17 if you so choose to go with a 17.

best bet IMO is finallize what you want 17 or 19 then it's easy. you want to know about the 19 and life span/parts breaking talk to Brian McIlmoyle (I think, If I got the name wrong I am sorry)

Blah I could go on and on but it will just come out as KSC KSC KSC so I'll stop.

BBS · April 29th, 2008, 19:43

not sure about the TM G17, although i find it much more aesthetically pleasing than the KSC glock 17.

KSC glocks dont have crappy internals that easily break. In fact the semi auto glocks which they make are proven work horses. If in fact parts do break from wear and tear, they are easily to locate. you can source them on ASC's classifieds or you can get them online ( WGC, UNC).

I dealt with quite a few G19's in the past they've never given up on me. I also like their HW frame too. KSC G23f and G26c...ehh, their full auto mechanism is less reliable.

1 word: KSC.

Griffin · April 29th, 2008, 20:45

Having purchased on of BBS's KCS G19's when I got the internals will still in top shape. If I had not done upgrades such as metal slide etc I have no doubt, they would still have held up for awhile. The parts for KSC guns right not seem really easy to find at places such as UNcompany and Den Trinity.

Invasian · April 29th, 2008, 20:58

Cant speak for the KSC however, I have a TM G17 moded with PGC slide and barrel reinforced recoil and hammer spring.....(getting high valves and tanio riffled barrel shortly

and it's by far THE most reliable; straight and far shooting GBB I HAVE EVER OWNED, at least 290-300 fps (without high valves) its solid as a rock, and never fails...for those wondering I highly recommend the TM G17, seems TM incorporated the best of their "high kick, high grouping" technology, just be prepared to go after the metal mods to improve performance, stock its solid, but you know you'll want to upgrade to getter a better ROI.

RacingManiac · April 29th, 2008, 21:09

Just wanna clarify I did not exactly say KSC's internal is crap, its just I find it to be harder to work on than TMs....TM's hopup has like 2 screws and 6 parts in total, KSC's has more and have tiny parts that likes to jump out....

Like I said, I don't think you can go wrong with KSC glocks....there is a reason why they are popular...

HaZarD SFD · April 29th, 2008, 21:15

KSC G19 is a kickass workhorse.. They are damn reliable and strong. There are a few problems with them but with proper maintenance and care they will last forever. And yes all the parts for them can be bought if you happen to break a part on the pistol.

BBS · April 29th, 2008, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin

Having purchased on of BBS's KCS G19's when I got the internals will still in top shape. If I had not done upgrades such as metal slide etc I have no doubt, they would still have held up for awhile. The parts for KSC guns right not seem really easy to find at places such as UNcompany and Den Trinity.

yep

, these guns just seem to never fail. After you're done with it, sell it and it will probably log a few more thousand rounds before it needs attention. After minor servicing, back on the field it goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invasian

Cant speak for the KSC however, I have a TM G17 moded with PGC slide and barrel reinforced recoil and hammer spring.....(getting high valves and tanio riffled barrel shortly

and it's by far THE most reliable; straight and far shooting GBB I HAVE EVER OWNED, at least 290-300 fps (without high valves) its solid as a rock, and never fails...for those wondering I highly recommend the TM G17, seems TM incorporated the best of their "high kick, high grouping" technology, just be prepared to go after the metal mods to improve performance, stock its solid, but you know you'll want to upgrade to getter a better ROI.

with their hi-kick, hi-accuracy systems, I'm sure TM glocks are more fun to shoot than the KSC glocks. i'm also confident the TM G17 is reliabile but the KSC glocks are proven, on record, to last.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaZarD SFD

KSC G19 is a kickass workhorse.. They are damn reliable and strong. There are a few problems with them but with proper maintenance and care they will last forever. And yes all the parts for them can be bought if you happen to break a part on the pistol.

yeah the only part to really watch out for is the stock slide with prpane. (Still, many users shot a few thousand rounds with propane before the plastic slide cracked). Another part that will wear out eventually is the hop up rubber, still without it, your gun will still shoot. replacing the rubber is what, $3?

Lakonian · April 30th, 2008, 00:25

See....I've heard alot of (well reputed) members mention abrupt gun failures (namely Brian from TTAC3), that completely decommission the gun, and cannot be repaired. This is why I'm so sketchy about the KSC..

But anyway, I'll look into KSC's G19. But doesn't look like there's any newish ones forsale...

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April 29th, 2008, 00:17	#1
Lakonian kos Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wherever.	TM G17 vs KSC G17... Uhm. Yeah, so I may be switching pistol platforms once again, as I'm getting extremely tired of some 1911/2011 related issues. So far, looks like the Glock series is getting the $$ when I get back from my little trip... BUT! There's a problem... I've heard KSC glocks have really crappy obscure internals that break easily, and cannot be replaced.. But are really nice when working. HOWEVER, I've also heard the same for TM glocks.... So, which would be better for parts longevity, parts availability , and general maintenance? Performance is tied up from what I've heard, but if you have a contrary opinion, let me know. Thanks

April 29th, 2008, 00:39	#2
RacingManiac Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada/US	Had a KSC G19, reliable little gun. never needed to take it apart until a piece in the hop-up chamber broke. Bitch to replace, but once fixed it was shooting happily again. I think mine had a upgraded hammer spring, as well as recoil spring and ther generic KSC metal kit. Shoots hard and kicks hard. The HW frame feels like a dream. KSC G17 I've heard are a bit less robust than the smaller G19(some parts that are metal on the 19s are plastic on the 17), and does not come with HW frame. I think for Glocks KSC have probably as big a aftermarket as regular TMs. TM's new Glock I've heard is quite nice. Like all TMs there are plenty of aftermarket stuff out there for it. The blowback system I think is similar to their Hi-Capa's(though not using common parts), so coming from Hi-Capa I think you might be ok for servicing. Though I've heard the hammer/trigger mech for either brand is a bitch to work on. I remember doing hammer spring for my old TM G26 and it was quite intimidating....TM definitely don't have the HW frame like the KSC, and from most of the TM plastic parts I've seen I think they won't feel as good....Hop-up should be better on TM as usual. I've also heard the TM is a tad wider than the real-steel version, thus making it harder to fit molded holster, though truth be told the TM G26 I've had fits the Fobus perfectly... I think if I were to buy another glock I'll still buy a KSC. They make a shit load of them and I guess its for a reason. The newer "race pistol" version of the G34 and G35 now comes with HW frame as well, which for me seems the most attractive as I am always sorta intrigued by the long slide Glocks....and I do miss the G19 I've had... __________________ My Arnies' Album My PBase Album Custom Pistol Whore...

April 29th, 2008, 00:43	#3
dpvu Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Calgary	http://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/revie...7vsmarui17.htm This review is quite in-depth but it doesn't really have a lot about longevity and availability of parts. Still helpful in making a decision. __________________ JG HK416 KWA USP

April 29th, 2008, 03:48	#4
tunabreath Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Edmonton, AB	The TM hopup is faaaaar superior in design, and very slightly superior in performance. I don't know where you heard KSC internals are finicky though, they're very reliable and sturdy, with the exception of maybe the floating valve (easily replaced with readily available metal ones) and the selector on G18Cs. If I were to buy a glock for the first time (again), I'd take the TM unless I wanted long mags (which, I suppose, is just a matter of time). This might help: http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...455&hl=\glock\ __________________ Vita, Passione e Pistole Last edited by tunabreath; April 29th, 2008 at 03:55..

April 29th, 2008, 03:57	#5
Tex Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Abbotsford, B.C.	IF and only IF you are set on the 17 then I too would go for the TM. I feel dirty saying it now after so many years of recomending KSC but for the 17 yes TM. But the KSC Glock 19 is far far better then both the TM and KSC Glock 17's. as for internals on KSC the only part I could never find was 83/87 but theres a thread in the sales right now with a small amount of them cheap but it's getting smaller by the hour. but I only ever had one break and it was the 17's years of use out of my KSC's.

April 29th, 2008, 04:10	#6
Lakonian kos Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wherever.	I don't mind the G19, actually, after reading about it's heavyweight frame, I might go for that instead. The other thing I'm really concerned about is having one small obscure part decommission my pistol, and then having to sell it because the part is no longer in production... If 83/87 is going to keep my gun out of the action, I might aswell look at TM. Plus, that Guarder steel slide is a nice bonus...

April 29th, 2008, 05:10	#7
Amos Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Japan	It seems many part 87's have flooded the market recently My buddy's glock 17 will be back up and running after over 2 years of being stashed away in a case! __________________ Custom Builds: FA3674U Krinkov G3SD6

April 29th, 2008, 06:01	#8
Tex Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Abbotsford, B.C.	If you are considering the 19 I would hate to see you go TM 17 because of one silly part (A part that in 2 Glock 19's and 5 years or so I never needed). After years of use with both models by KSC I would go with the 19 over either 17 anyday. plus ASC now has a member who can get KSC factory parts. Hell I would just grab one or two parts now when you don't need it but know you can get it. Price of a 6 pack of beer for peice of mind you can't go wrong. Coming from a long time KSC Glock fan the TM glock 17 is great and it is better then the KSC 17 if you so choose to go with a 17. best bet IMO is finallize what you want 17 or 19 then it's easy. you want to know about the 19 and life span/parts breaking talk to Brian McIlmoyle (I think, If I got the name wrong I am sorry) Blah I could go on and on but it will just come out as KSC KSC KSC so I'll stop.

April 29th, 2008, 19:43	#9
BBS Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC, Canada	not sure about the TM G17, although i find it much more aesthetically pleasing than the KSC glock 17. KSC glocks dont have crappy internals that easily break. In fact the semi auto glocks which they make are proven work horses. If in fact parts do break from wear and tear, they are easily to locate. you can source them on ASC's classifieds or you can get them online ( WGC, UNC). I dealt with quite a few G19's in the past they've never given up on me. I also like their HW frame too. KSC G23f and G26c...ehh, their full auto mechanism is less reliable. 1 word: KSC.

April 29th, 2008, 20:45	#10
Griffin Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mississauga, Ontario	Having purchased on of BBS's KCS G19's when I got the internals will still in top shape. If I had not done upgrades such as metal slide etc I have no doubt, they would still have held up for awhile. The parts for KSC guns right not seem really easy to find at places such as UNcompany and Den Trinity.

April 29th, 2008, 20:58	#11
Invasian Likes it BOLD attention whore MAXIMUS! Trader rating Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mtl	Cant speak for the KSC however, I have a TM G17 moded with PGC slide and barrel reinforced recoil and hammer spring.....(getting high valves and tanio riffled barrel shortly and it's by far THE most reliable; straight and far shooting GBB I HAVE EVER OWNED, at least 290-300 fps (without high valves) its solid as a rock, and never fails...for those wondering I highly recommend the TM G17, seems TM incorporated the best of their "high kick, high grouping" technology, just be prepared to go after the metal mods to improve performance, stock its solid, but you know you'll want to upgrade to getter a better ROI.

April 29th, 2008, 21:09	#12
RacingManiac Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada/US	Just wanna clarify I did not exactly say KSC's internal is crap, its just I find it to be harder to work on than TMs....TM's hopup has like 2 screws and 6 parts in total, KSC's has more and have tiny parts that likes to jump out.... Like I said, I don't think you can go wrong with KSC glocks....there is a reason why they are popular... __________________ My Arnies' Album My PBase Album Custom Pistol Whore...

April 29th, 2008, 21:15	#13
HaZarD SFD Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ottawa	KSC G19 is a kickass workhorse.. They are damn reliable and strong. There are a few problems with them but with proper maintenance and care they will last forever. And yes all the parts for them can be bought if you happen to break a part on the pistol. __________________ No Comment.

April 30th, 2008, 00:25	#15
Lakonian kos Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wherever.	See....I've heard alot of (well reputed) members mention abrupt gun failures (namely Brian from TTAC3), that completely decommission the gun, and cannot be repaired. This is why I'm so sketchy about the KSC.. But anyway, I'll look into KSC's G19. But doesn't look like there's any newish ones forsale...

TM G17 vs KSC G17...

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