Scout type Scope for M14, Question.

[nic_s]

So I've been doing some research as far as optics for my M14 go, and I've found that one option is mounting a scope further up (towards the muzzle), past the bolt. So my question is, what are disadvantages/advantages to this type of scope configuration? Is it limited to magnified/ non-magnified scopes? Do you shoot with both eyes open? How come more people don't use this setup?

As always, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Nic

[FOX_111]

If you are to mount a scope that far, it must be designed for that. If not, you won't see shit tru it.

If you are not looking for that exact look, there is a kit that you can buy that add a little RIS plate on the back of the bolt and a bigger one in front, so you can properly mount a scope on top of all that.

It's really a kickass look.

[Lerch]

True, it is a kickass look, but it does limit your acquiring ability since the scope will be further away. I would think a reflex sight or something easy to look through would work best in this setup.

My $0.02.

[Goldman]

IIRC that set up was designed msotly for Aimpoints and EOtechs.

[Hades]

I've mounted my aimpoint on my M14 in this fashion and played around with it a bit. It does work quite well for target location though the eye relief takes a bit of getting used to. Primarily I think I am gonna be using a low magnification rifle scope most of the time as I am putting together an M-14 SASS with a few realsteel parts from Smith Enterprises

[Greylocks]

You need a special long eye-relief scope. That's all.
Normal scopes wont work unless you go for a red-dot or similar type. If you want the scout look, do it well or stick with something more standard.
I think a front mounted reflex sight on an M14 would look really crappy.

[nic_s]

I do want something with slight magnification. But what's the advantage of having a scope up front? is it faster target acquisition?

[FOX_111]

I guess the reason the scope is so far in front, it's because they way the bolt is desingned. It's not really an advantage.

When you have the scope close to your eye,you get a better field of view in the scope and a better sight picture.

[Bunny]

I think it is a slightly faster acquisition, and is a both eyes open style of shooting. I've had a real rifle and an airsoft rifle set up in this manner.

Greylocks is correct. Get a shotgun or pistol scope designated LER (Long eye relief) and you're gtg. They are generally only about 4 power but that should be fine.

Alternately, you can mount an aimpoint or eotech, but I found that it sits far too high to get a consistent cheek weld without an aftermarket stock extension.

[alex_c_t]

like goldman said - the ones mounted up front tend to be aimpoint/eotech RDS sights -no magnification, just a red dot/cross for fast target aquisition.

if you want magnification you'll want to mount it closer, especially since most of these (magnification) scopes tend to have a smaller field of view. if youre going this way i advise against anything more powerful than a 2 or 3x (i got two 3-9x which i use on the 3x setting and they're still way too powerful - you can see the bb's arching down while at long range theyre actually out of view). im not sure about the long eye relief (never used one) - would that really work with goggles or a full mask?

and yeah, i agree with greylocks, a reflex would look just wrong on an m14. might want to try an aimpoint instead.

[Bunny]

Of course it works with goggles or a mask, why wouldn't it? Eye relief with goggles shouldn't matter with either type of scope setup, as your eye is back away from the scope (about 3" and 18" respectively) anyhow.
Also, you do not get a better field of view from a traditional mount, actually it's the opposite. You are looking through a straw with a fov of about 15 degrees with monocular vision.

Also (pt2), if you can only see a bit of an arc of your bbs and then they're out of view, you need to adjust your scope and/or your hopup.

[alex_c_t]

Also (pt2), if you can only see a bit of an arc of your bbs and then they're out of view, you need to adjust your scope and/or your hopup.

are you sure? because i tried it, and unless you got a real steel or some really hot upgrades, you will see it start to curve down after about 150 feet. hell, even for real steel you would have to compensate for bullet drop at long ranges.

as for the field of view... do you mean you really see better through a 20mm scope placed 10" away than through a 30mm rds 1-2" away?

[Bunny]

Originally Posted by alex_c_t

are you sure? because i tried it, and unless you got a real steel or some really hot upgrades, you will see it start to curve down after about 150 feet. hell, even for real steel you would have to compensate for bullet drop at long ranges.

as for the field of view... do you mean you really see better through a 20mm scope placed 10" away than through a 30mm rds 1-2" away?

You had said your bbs were arcing out of view at the range you are shooting at. It that's the case your scope is way off. Now, that being said, your scope will not have the crosshairs on target for every range of target, that's why you zero it at an arbitrary range. You aim off to compensate for not only range but also wind (and in the case of real steel, mirage).

As to field of view, an rds is a different case than a normal scope. In the case of a 20mm vs a 30mm rds, the fov would be essentially the same, because in each case both eyes are open. To use a normal scope mounted in a normal position, you have one eye closed. Also, you generally want to mount reflex optics forward on your weapon (although maybe not so forward as to use a scout mount). No scope should be 1" from your eye (with real steel, you'd learn why in a hurry). The proper mounting distance is more like 3" from your eye. There should be a complete picture through the scope, with no 'scope shadow' around the edges.

[alex_c_t]

at over maximum aeg range you can see it arching down, hop up adjusted properly, and elevation set up to keep the bb in view as much as possible for its entire flight (zeroed in somewhere around 80-90 feet). however, since most scopes are not made specifically for the low velocities of airsoft, if you use the scope on the higher settings, or just any bigger than 4X and aim around lets say around 500 feet away... im pretty sure you would notice the drop. btw, anyone got a cheap 2x scope up for sale?

yeah, im aware of the idiot's mark that you get when the recoil pushes the scope into your eye, i didnt mean it literally that close, even for airsoft (got shot in the arm while aiming once and flinched the scope into my goggles hard enough to scratch them)

as for the part of fov... we got a poll on the first page... not everybody uses both eyes open when looking through a scope, so i guess it would depend more on your style.

i got both rds and regular scopes for mine, and i tried different mounting options. to me it seems that the rds work better mounted further down the gun. its just easier to use both eyes that way, while i found that with my scopes its better if theyre closer so you dont have to look through a straw or get the scope shadow.

but back on topic - what i really think nic was refering to was some of the pics that show the m14 with the forward mounted aimpoint vs a traditional scope.

while i really, really hate the look of an aimpoint on a m14, ill admit it looks like an effective setup. you dont really need the magnification of a scope in airsoft since you dont have the range for it. so a forward mounted rds would be effective especially for fast target aquisition, but... did i mention that i really, really hate how it looks?

on the other hand, a scope would look cool, but you might be disapointed with the results.

[nic_s]

Trust me, my M14 has the range needed for just a bit of magnification. This is also not my first time using a scope.

Thanks for all the help so far guys, esp. Greylocks and Bunny.