M4 LiPo Problem

[juRRipiLLu]

Hey,

I´m having problems to find a 11,1 v lipo which has 20c power output, that i coul fit in my buffertube. So if you could recommend anything I would appreciate that. It doesn´t have to be 20c, but 11,1 voltage it has to be

[m102404]

The king arms small buffer tube LiPo is 11.1V, 1100mAh and 15C. It's a bit light for high powered setups, but in many setups it provides enough power for most days of gaming.

There are others that seem to be the same (i.e. just a different lable on it)...but I cannot comment on which one of those are good or not. I know the KA ones have worked well for me.

If you're trying to cram it all into the buffer tube...there are LiPo stock tube specific buffer tubes where the retaining nut inside the tube is set much further forward. That provides the most space for the wiring/battery.

Batt
http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1338

(i have not tried this one)
http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1903

Stock tube
http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1906

Check out airsoftparts.ca for other variants...PM Jugglez (owner of the store) if you have any questions about a particular setup).

Tys

[phloudernow]

Try, Hot- Power, they have 20c 11.1V LIpos, i think not too sure, you should stick with 15C anything over 20C is usually for RC-racing you can go up to 30C, but they screw ur gun up big time ,

but just like m102404 id suggest king arms lipos, they are awesome, worked the best for me, i think they are the best lipos for airsoft. i run high speed set ups and they work wonders with ROF

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by juRRipiLLu

Hey,

I´m having problems to find a 11,1 v lipo which has 20c power output, that i coul fit in my buffertube. So if you could recommend anything I would appreciate that. It doesn´t have to be 20c, but 11,1 voltage it has to be

Their is no such thing. Their is extensive discussion on this subject on airsoft mechanics

I've used the hotpower and firefox buffer lipo and All i got was a smoking battery in my buffer tube. I"ve tossed about 5 of those batteries of the 11.1 and 7.4 variety. The didn't last more than 10 charge cycles. They do not perform anywhere near advertised.

Depending on your setup, I would recommend you go with a battery bag of some king or a sling mounted battery option. If you are running a low power setup <350 FPS then a buffer lipo may do the job. Their is a duratrax and flightpower softpack that fits the buffer tube but it's only 800mah and 15c.

The C value and Mah rating of batteries is determined by area of each of the cells. The ideal buffer lipo would be 2000 mah and 30C but they don't exist.

[cellulose]

I would say go for a 7.4v...

I have tested the MadBull PX04 11.1v 1000mAh 15C and the Intellect 7.4v 1200mAh 20C and have found that even though I do get a slight bit more RPS the Intellect performs better, part of the reason being is the continuous discharge rate. To find the continuous discharge rate you do the following:

mAh x C / 1000 = CDR

eg:
- MadBull 11.1v 1000 mAh 15C: 1000 x 15 / 1000 = 15A CDR
- Intellect 7.4v 1200 mAh 20C: 1200 x 20 /1000 = 24A CDR

Even though the MadBull has a higher voltage the Intellect can power the AEG better due to the higher continuous discharge rate. You should have at least 15A continuous discharge for a stock AEG, and this will increase the more upgrades you put into your gearbox (torque/speed gears, higher powered springs, etc.)

Also what I have found is I use the Extreme-Fire SW-Evolution and WolfDragon's Over Discharge PCB v4.2, now that being said when I used the MadBull battery the Over Discharge PCB didn't like it very much as it kept tripping the warning that the battery was low, when I use the Intellect I received no warnings and still fantastic performance. If I plugged the battery directly into the SW-Evolution I had no issues with either battery though of course there is no over discharge protection.

Currently I am using the MadBull ACE Buffer Tube and there is enough room for the Intellect battery and both the MOSFET and PCB, there's really no room to spare with all of the stuff in there but it fits very nicely and keeps my AEG sleek.

If you are going to be using a LiPo I highly recommend using a MOSFET and Over Discharge circuit or at least some sort of protection. The MOSFET does so much to improve the performance of your AEG that even if you are not using a LiPo you should use one.

Why do you 'need' a 11.1v LiPo anyways? Your motor will thank you for passing less voltage through it and your gearbox will last longer...

Hope that helps to some degree!

[ThunderCactus]

7.4v 20C LiPo, MOSFET, upgraded wiring, 350fps, quality motor, and high speed gears.
That'll give you high ROF at 7.4v, anywhere from 950-1100rpm, maybe even more.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

7.4v 20C LiPo, MOSFET, upgraded wiring, 350fps, quality motor, and high speed gears.
That'll give you high ROF at 7.4v, anywhere from 950-1100rpm, maybe even more.

That's not a particularly huge achievement. A standard ratio gear set, a TM motor and a M100-M110 spring will achieve that with a 7.4 20C. The problem with this is that you didn't include the MaH rating of the pack so we don't have a gauge of the CDR. I would guess the Mah rating is between 1800-2200.

@absentcell
Any of the mosfets made by Don, Terry, and Mike (DonP, Gandolf, and (i cant remember) will do the job. Their is a little trade secret about these 3 manufacturer of Trigger boards and MOSFETS that I got direct from DonP when I was last at his house.

[ThunderCactus]

32A is much more than enough for a 400fps 1200rpm setup. Works out to a 1600mah battery at 20C.

[juRRipiLLu]

I will be using a mosfet, and i want to get the 11,1v lipo because i want high rate of fire and 400 fps gun. My team has already three of these guns and their working fine. But thanks for your help, i´ll look into that battery buffer tube. And sorry for my bad english, but i hope that you can understand it

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by juRRipiLLu

I will be using a mosfet, and i want to get the 11,1v lipo because i want high rate of fire and 400 fps gun. My team has already three of these guns and their working fine. But thanks for your help, i´ll look into that battery buffer tube. And sorry for my bad english, but i hope that you can understand it

What is a "decent" RoF?

My ROF was higher with about 18bps @ 420fps with a 9.6 battery. With the hot power and firefox packs is was around 10-12bps. Right now with the trigger master set to default i'm getting about 1400rpm out of the gun with my setup and that includes the 1/2 second delay that the gun takes after the burst to cycle into full auto.

You are not going to be impressed with the RoF of buffer lipo when you compare it to quality NiMH packs.

[m102404]

My last build shoots 1550rpm (25-26rps)...that's a pretty fast ROF. Personally...I think it's stupid fast and actually counter productive. Reasons...the risks that something is going to go wrong in your mechbox goes up...everything wears faster...and you basically suck mags dry really, really quickly...you start to get blank shots because your mags can't keep up..etc...

The biggest reason why a really high ROF is silly (in my opinion) is that you shouldn't need to blast someone with a "quick burst" of 20+ BBs. 20+ BBs impacting basically simultaneously is not a nice thing to do to a shooting buddy (it fucking hurts).

I'm going to downgrade on the motor to actually slow it down.

Now I'm working on a build that should shoot ~40-45rps (2400-2700rpm) @ 400fps...but that's just for fun and I can't imagine actually ever shooting someone with that.

You'd actually be better off with a Crane style stock that can hold a large battery pack...i.e. a Classic Army Crane Stock and 9.6v large sub-c battery pack.

[Azathoth]

I agree with Ty that sub C NiMH are the better route if you want a "high" RoF. You cannot fit a high quality LiPo into a M4 buffer tube that will get you anywhere close to what a SuB C will get you.

I have to slow down my motor 40% on the trigger master to get the RoF down to a reasonable level with my current setup. That includes locking auto to the 1 second delay and changing auto to burst fire.

To the original OP:
I could be wrong but I doubt your motor has the torque or power to deliver the RoF that you desire. A LiPO battery hooked up to a Element/Supershooter/G&G/ICS/Kraken/AGM is not the solution to high RoF. You will need a motor capable of turning fast enough and with sufficient force to drive a M120+ Spring

Also if you are going the MOSFET route make sure your MOSFET does not have active braking enabled especially if you are using a quality motor. You can burn out your motor very quickly especially the higher power motors if active braking is a feature on the FET (in some it is a feature).

For Trigger master users. Talk to Terry, Mike and Don, and make sure that if you are running Systema Magnum (do the insultation mod to this motor), G&P 160, Tienly or equivalent motors that you have the 3.9 version of Don's board. I asked him to include the active breaking disable feature in that revision.

For most people LiPo is the short cut to getting better trigger response. LiPo is like racing fuel for AEGs. If your system isnt optimized for racing fuel you shouldn't be using it on a long term basis. If you want better trigger response. A high torque motor that can deliver high RPM plus a power source that you want will give you better RoF, and trigger response. Airsoft LiPo Madbull lifeopo excluded) are total trash or horrendously overpriced.

[T@NK]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

Their is no such thing. Their is extensive discussion on this subject on airsoft mechanics

I've used the hotpower and firefox buffer lipo and All i got was a smoking battery in my buffer tube. I"ve tossed about 5 of those batteries of the 11.1 and 7.4 variety. The didn't last more than 10 charge cycles. They do not perform anywhere near advertised.

that is wierd, I 've been running hotpower 11.1v 15c 1100mah in my RS 97 over years with 0 issue. also worked well on my custom built mk18. I think is not all about battery, check your gun setting.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by T@NK

that is wierd, I 've been running hotpower 11.1v 15c 1100mah in my RS 97 over years with 0 issue. also worked well on my custom built mk18. I think is not all about battery, check your gun setting.

I know what I'm doing.

I'm running 14awg milspec single strand silver wire with a telfon jacketas the power wires, 20awg wire with the same specs for the trigger contacts. I've had all connectors properly tinned and polished. The actual switch inside the gearbox is brand new as is the selector plate so their is zero previous carbon buildup or scorching.

The wiring is properly bundled and was inspected before assembly. I made sure not to pinch the wires when screwing the box back together, the wires where pig tailed and heat shrunk in a bundle.

All batteries and terminals are wired to real Deans' plugs from a reputable local RC shop (Edmonton). Batteries were purchased from a major HK airsoft retailer in person at the time (ehobbyasia).

I've performed the Magnum motor insulation mod but I now use a G&P 160.

I use a Triton EQ2 charger, Balance charge all my batteries all the time.

I had the problem with the lousy batteries both with and without the trigger master. I got FAR FAR FAR better performance from the G&P 9.6 crane battery than the 11.1 and 7.4 buffer lipos

[Andy n]

I have been running the king arms 11.1V lipo is my scar since last year. Ever had a problem with it. I must have at least charged it up about 50 times by now.