What guns need improvement or don't exist?

[attack-beaver]

would a gun shooting 600 FPS+ need to be registered as a real fire arm?

[Ghillie973]

Nope, muzzel energy has to be over a certin number. 5.7j I think.

Anyways if your really going to start making airsoft guns you might wanna start with something simple, like a bolt action. Make a nice BA that no one else has made and you could probably sell it around the world. Just make sure you use the same internals as any popular BA, ie. APS/M24 or VSR.

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by attack-beacer

would a gun shooting 600 FPS+ need to be registered as a real fire arm?

only if the muzzle energy was also over 5.7J.
E=0.5*0.0002*183^2
E=3.3489J
so shooting 0.2g BB's at 600fps is well under the legal limit
with fps at 700,
E=4.553956J
still under the limit
800 is slightly over, though.
E=5.9536J

HOWEVER, Canada's airgun law does not specify the weight of the BB that they test it with. So if you were to have a 6J gun and insist that it is designed for steel (0.88g) bb's... The same gun that fires 0.2g BB's at 800fps (with 6J of muzzle energy) will only fire them at 383fps, thus making your gun "legal".

Not that I'm suggesting you try this.

[thephenom]

Originally Posted by Ghillie973

Anyways if your really going to start making airsoft guns you might wanna start with something simple, like a bolt action. Make a nice BA that no one else has made and you could probably sell it around the world. Just make sure you use the same internals as any popular BA, ie. APS/M24 or VSR.

I don't know about that, sniper rifles are fun for plinking, but the extra distance they get comparing to AEGs is so minimal that BA doesn't have too much advantage and often tougher to compete. Obviously some snipers can be very good, but that's a minority.

I would still think making an AEG would be better to generate quantity to drive down overall production/overhead costs. It doesn't even have to be fancy, as long as it works fine (ie first-tier quality), cost is reasonable, interchangable parts with other manufacturers, and it would be NICE to see something different, but it can be just a remake.

[sukivan]

how important is the realism of the internals?

If you open the ejection port, is it important to you that the internals appear realistic, or do you not care? IE, a tube in the ejection port that makes it abundantly clear that no cartridges are being loaded through it

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by sukivan

HOWEVER, Canada's airgun law does not specify the weight of the BB that they test it with. So if you were to have a 6J gun and insist that it is designed for steel (0.88g) bb's... The same gun that fires 0.2g BB's at 800fps (with 6J of muzzle energy) will only fire them at 383fps, thus making your gun "legal".

Not that I'm suggesting you try this.

Likely they will use the most commonly available rounds designed for your gun, or the rounds specified by the manufacturer (TM, CA, etc.). They won't do the testing with only .12g, but will likely do it with .20 and .25. It's the same procedure they use to test pellet guns as they fall into the same category as airsoft guns for the most part.

But if they do test with .20 as an example and your gun is deemed illegal, good luck fighting it. The court costs alone would not be worth it and you are almost certain to lose, especially if you have no ammo for it at a higher weight in your possession, and it is a modified or custom built gun with no specified velocity. You'd just be shit out of luck.

[ancorp]

Originally Posted by sukivan

how important is the realism of the internals?

If you open the ejection port, is it important to you that the internals appear realistic, or do you not care? IE, a tube in the ejection port that makes it abundantly clear that no cartridges are being loaded through it

Although I doubt its possible to make the internals very realistic, it would be nice to have an empty ejection port when the bolt is moved back.

With all these questions, are you considering making something? There are plenty of people talking about how they will design this or that, but never gets past a drawing or two

Hell even I have a powerpoint drawing of a complete gas blowback shorty rifle that operates close to a real steel AK, but I doubt it would be reliable (not enough pressure to move the bolt all the way back) It would still work, just the blowback wouldnt be realistic... I think.

Either way its too basic to post up here.

Cheers!
Alex

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by ancorp

Although I doubt its possible to make the internals very realistic, it would be nice to have an empty ejection port when the bolt is moved back.

With all these questions, are you considering making something? There are plenty of people talking about how they will design this or that, but never gets past a drawing or two

Hell even I have a powerpoint drawing of a complete gas blowback shorty rifle that operates close to a real steel AK, but I doubt it would be reliable (not enough pressure to move the bolt all the way back) It would still work, just the blowback wouldnt be realistic... I think.

Either way its too basic to post up here.

Cheers!
Alex

what do you mean, it's too basic?

[sukivan]

guys, I just came up with a brilliant (in it's simplicity) gas blowback design. I'm on cloud nine :angel:

In two years, you will all be using this. You heard it here first.

You'll see.

[Rumpel Felt]

I highly doubt it.

It seems like you just want to make a big splash around here.

It's pretty obvious what we want......more realism. Just like we want more places to play and such. We WANT airsoft to be totally legal.

Problem is, wanting it ain't enough. You have to show something, like actually SOMETHING to step out of that day-dreamer line.

I'm not saying you can't do it....just do it, then shoot your mouth off.

[Daes]

I agree, lets see something. A photo of your workshop, some designs, a picture made in Microsoft Paint, anything! A bunch of words are very hollow indeed.

-Daes

[sukivan]

Why do you think Freedom Fighter resurrected my thread back from the Trash?

I am more than talk, you'll see.

[Daes]

Not even a teaser pic or something? I hate waiting...

-Daes

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by Daes

Not even a teaser pic or something? I hate waiting...

-Daes

I'm not going to post details about the mechanism before I even have a prototype. That is just opening the door for IP theft.

I will say:
1) Fully automatic (with semi and safety where applicable).
2) The system will run on compressed gas (could run on propane or CO2 in theory, but cool-down would be an issue). Compressed air means that shots will be consistent regardless of outside temperature.
3) There will be full bolt functionality. The bolt will cycle with each shot. You will have to pull the bolt back to load the first BB and cock the hammer. The bolt will travel 100% of the distance of the real thing.
4) Closed bolt, sealed breech = sky is the limit in terms of FPS (well, legal limit is the limit ).

There will be a decent amount of recoil (obviously, nothing like the real steel though). I might work on adding recoil later.

No shell extraction in this version, I'm afraid.

[Daes]

Yeah, my only issue with using HPA is that they are difficult to fill. You either purchase a scuba tank and buy an adapter to fill your own tanks, or you are lucky enough to have a paintball store that will fill them for you. Either which way, it can very cost prohibitive for most players or not available in their community.

There is a reason why AEG's became so popular, though not as nice as gas guns for realism sake, they do provide a very cheap, realiable, and readily accessible source of energy. Now, if you do provide a means of using CO2 and HPA, then you will be able to reach most of the market.

One other cost issue is that adjustable regulators for HPA are a bit pricey. Will they be built into the gun allowing adjustable FPS or will they be external on a tank? Since HPA is 3000-4500+ psi, I must admit that I am slightly nervous using the technology in a magazine state.

-Daes