IR Lasers & DBAL's at games.

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by Qlong

Pretty smooth eh?

Well, ITAR just means that you need an exporter, there are legitimate sellers that sell Class I IR lasers on CGN, but do charge more for it. Eg. LDI DBAL costs $1300 in Canada vs $781 in the US.

There isn't much NOD related stuff posted up on CGN for some reason (aside from Alpha Optics) and $1300 would be far past my budget. I'm a pretty cheap dude. I guess it stems from my Asian genetics.

[Derpystronk]

Originally Posted by mmmken

There isn't much NOD related stuff posted up on CGN for some reason (aside from Alpha Optics) and $1300 would be far past my budget.

Just as a word of advice to anyone reading: this the cheapest IR Laser unit From Tactical Imports - the Newcon LAM 10 - is a Class 3A unit and not Class 1, meaning it is not eye safe for Airsoft use.

[Short Round]

I am all for using laser, however I have noticed a lot of users (both new and veteran) disregard courtesy and common sense when using them (aiming straight at the eyes specifically).

I get the whole obsession over head shots, "double tap" and what not, and I understand we do play a game where people shot each other, however there is no excuse to try and blind your opponent, even if they are eye-safe.

That is my only problem with people who use lasers, but other then that I do like having them in use during games to point out targets, locations, and objectives. The occasional lightsaber fights are very enjoyable as well.

[Viperfish]

Originally Posted by Najohn

I am all for using laser, however I have noticed a lot of users (both new and veteran) disregard courtesy and common sense when using them (aiming straight at the eyes specifically).

I get the whole obsession over head shots, "double tap" and what not, and I understand we do play a game where people shot each other, however there is no excuse to try and blind your opponent, even if they are eye-safe.

That is my only problem with people who use lasers, but other then that I do like having them in use during games to point out targets, locations, and objectives. The occasional lightsaber fights are very enjoyable as well.

When it comes to ir lasers if it hits someone in the face it is normally not intentional.

many times when you shoot a laser at someone you are roughly aiming at them then before you take your shot you turn on your laser and you will adjust.

This means i think im aiming at them, but i fire my laser and move it on target and then fire. sometimes it just so happens that its closer to there face then id like, when this happens i turn it off then aim down a readjust and try again only aiming lower.

As for red lasers, i cant comment, iv seen them used but i dont have one.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by c3sk

Basically it has always come down to this:

Is it FDA approved? If the answer is no, and the government has not signed off on it. It probably isn't safe and it shouldn't be used on players. Game hosts now require paperwork to be produced with the laser you are using, an excellent practice. Hell, we even have a chrony for lasers now to make sure.


I've seen some pretty crazy IR lasers being used at night games before, luckily none of them graced my eyes. This was back in the day before players really knew about them, and started buying up all the Hong Kong knockoffs. If guys are running potentially dangerous IR designators at a game, virtually every player I know that enjoys a good night fight wouldn't be interested in taking the risk.

Hi,.
Do you have links or further info on the bolded text? If we had a reliable laser intensity measure device we may relax our stance on banning laser devices.

[z0ng]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

Hi,.
Do you have links or further info on the bolded text? If we had a reliable laser intensity measure device we may relax our stance on banning laser devices.

I'm no expert but I've had some experience with optical communications in the past. I have access to an optical light meter designed for use in telecom environments. It allows for measurement of light levels at specific wavelengths.

This is useful for getting an idea of how powerful a laser is. One of the wavelengths of light it can measure is 850nm which is around where most IR lasers are in the spectrum. It doesn't tell you however if the IR laser is calibrated right at 850nm so I would hesitate before using this technique to completely OK a laser for use. It could be calibrated for a different wavelength resulting in a lower power reading at 850nm which would not give an accurate indication of it's true power.

If I can get access to an optical spectrum analyzer then a more detailed report of what frequencies and strengths of light is being emitted from a specific laser diode would be possible. At that stage you could safely say a laser is OK to use. Sadly it's not so easy to get access to this type of gear as it's typically in excess of $10k or more for a spectrum analyzer.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by z0ng

I'm no expert but I've had some experience with optical communications in the past. I have access to an optical light meter designed for use in telecom environments. It allows for measurement of light levels at specific wavelengths.

This is useful for getting an idea of how powerful a laser is. One of the wavelengths of light it can measure is 850nm which is around where most IR lasers are in the spectrum. It doesn't tell you however if the IR laser is calibrated right at 850nm so I would hesitate before using this technique to completely OK a laser for use. It could be calibrated for a different wavelength resulting in a lower power reading at 850nm which would not give an accurate indication of it's true power.

If I can get access to an optical spectrum analyzer then a more detailed report of what frequencies and strengths of light is being emitted from a specific laser diode would be possible. At that stage you could safely say a laser is OK to use. Sadly it's not so easy to get access to this type of gear as it's typically in excess of $10k or more for a spectrum analyzer.

Thanks for the info. When we had a meeting with Game planners and field owners 2 years ago and they asked the question "what about laser measuring devices" we couldn't find anything that was portable and/or cost effective. The post from C3SK made it seem like something like their was a new development or we missed something in our research.

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

Thanks for the info. When we had a meeting with Game planners and field owners 2 years ago and they asked the question "what about laser measuring devices" we couldn't find anything that was portable and/or cost effective. The post from C3SK made it seem like something like their was a new development or we missed something in our research.

There are Optical Power Meters available starting at $100.00 on Ebay.
All you need is one that comes equipped with the equivalent sensor to detect the lasers wavelength (Majority come with this)

Then just convert the dBm to mW and you will have the reading. With our tests they were right in line with the documentation supplied.

Hope that helps!

[bean]

Not that it will be super cheap but Rampart International will be bringing in the class 1 units. You need to pay 300 for the state department paperwork. It will still be cheaper then a PEQ15

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by bean

Not that it will be super cheap but Rampart International will be bringing in the class 1 units. You need to pay 300 for the state department paperwork. It will still be cheaper then a PEQ15

I'm really interested to see what they will be bringing in!

300 bucks isn't bad for something you typically would only need to buy once

[ThunderCactus]

I've got a $200 IR laser I use with my nvd, nobody complains because nobody but gish, seal, and myself have ever seen the beam on it lol
But treat it like a visible laser in cqb, just don't be a dick with it and nobody will have a problem with it.

[bean]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

I've got a $200 IR laser I use with my nvd, nobody complains because nobody but gish, seal, and myself have ever seen the beam on it lol
But treat it like a visible laser in cqb, just don't be a dick with it and nobody will have a problem with it.

Thats a horrible horrible attitude to take with other peoples eyes. No one complains but what in the off chance you fuck someones eye sight up now what? I am glad that you think since no one can see it its ok.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by bean

Thats a horrible horrible attitude to take with other peoples eyes. No one complains but what in the off chance you fuck someones eye sight up now what? I am glad that you think since no one can see it its ok.

Yeah. Agreed. What model IR Laser are you shooting at people, ThunderCactus?

[tygr701]

As long as its legit and its specified as a class 1 IR/red laser I'm perfectly ok with them at games. If its repro or eye unsafe keep that crap away from the players. Its pretty selfish and dangerous to jeopardize others eyesight just so you can use a cheap repro or over powered unsafe laser systems.

[ThunderCactus]

it's a class 3a 3mw IR

And some people have been shot in the eye with BBs, so you think we should stop shooting BBs at eachother? lol

Like I said, just don't be a dick with it. I don't spray 50 round bursts at people's faces, and I don't shine IR lasers all about when I don't need to. I've got it on a pressure switch so I flick it on to line up my shot for half a second and shoot. And I'm already using NVD and can see a person if I'm going to shoot at them.
It's not like I'm waiving around a continuous beam like some jackass lol

Besides, I've employed and seen employed some things that are FAR more dangerous than IR lasers at airsoft games with no complaints... At least when I was using dangerous stuff I explained the risk to everyone