Full Metal Upgrades - PGC vs. Guarder
 

I'm looking to upgrade my TM 1911 with a metal slide/frame among other things and I can't find a comparable answer to my question: When it comes to FMUs, is PGC or Guarder better? Better in terms of overall quality and same/better shooting experience as the stock 1911 (i.e. can these metal upgrades affect the accuracy of the gun?).


The 2 that I am looking at are:

1) Pro-Win-Full Metal Slide & Frame Set-Marui M1911A1

Not sure how Pro-Win relates to PGC and PGC's other offering: HERE.
http://i12.tinypic.com/67qea34.jpg

PGC Pro-Win Metal Slide & Frame Set For Marui M1911A1
Material: Aluminium
Package Includes:
-Metal Slide
-Metal Frame
-Metal Outer Barrel
-Metal Rear Sight
-Metal Piston Head W/ O-Ring
-150% Enchanced Recoil Spring
- $198.00US


2) Guarder M1911-04(C)DG

http://i18.tinypic.com/67zio3q

Guarder Aluminum Slide & Frame Set
For Marui Colt M1911A1
In Dark Gray Colour
- $120.00US


Any other metal upgrade suggestions would be great!

Pretty sure those wont make it through customs fyi.

Ordering through Jugglez - I'm not smart enough to order it myself. :rolleyes:

PGC tends to have better finish and quality. Guarder FMU's typically require some kind of destructive mod that renders the part useless in other brands of parts (for example, the requirement to hack off part of the blowback chamber in P226, Hi-Capa and 1911 FMUs).

PGC are generally built to better standards of quality with less chances of failure or compatibility issues, but tighter tolerances may require some filing and fitment to get it installed right. The surface also generally features less pitting and smoother surfaces than Guarders die casted parts.

illusion saves the day........whats that 7246 times now?

Thanks Illusion! That clears things up a bit. :D

Does anyone know the difference between these two, they're both from PGC, cost the same ($198US), but one has additional upgrade parts.

http://www.uncompany.com/pageproduct...sp?prodid=9893

http://www.uncompany.com/pageproduct...sp?prodid=9117

one comes with the piston head, o-ring and recoil spring, while the other one doesn't.

I am using this set Pro-Win-Full Metal Slide & Frame Set-Marui M1911A1. The material and finishing quality is good. However, you need to do modification here and there to fit it up nicely. I do not know about Guarder.

- Sear Spring need to be file a bit on left-side of the base as normallly document say.
- Rear Sign hinge (Inside the frame) obstruct a bit with Blow-back housing
- Sear since Tricker will be slidely push back by new frame, comparing to TM, this cause Disconnector can not go up and stuck with Sear tip and always in disconnect position. File Sear a bit will do.
- TM sub-frame need to file a bit here and there to fit it in properly. You need to slowly check what cause the stuck.
- Since I have done up to here, then I have file the tip of hammer a bit to make it smoother when being pushed back and also Sear at the point of lock the Hammer hinge to make the tricker move nicer and smoother.

Their modification is not what I originally though. However, you will have a good nice and crispy sound of 1911 when done. The shooting accuracy is good for my case smoother trigger. (The TM original is already good.)

You can use standard gas with the original TM recoil spring and the 150% spring for Green or Top gas without any problem of Blow Back at all.

Good day,

I was just wondering why they cost the same, but one includes more parts - a difference in metal or overall quality?

Hey Classic, did you notice any difference in accuracy of your 1911? B/C the TM stock shoots amazingly well as is.

Also, Jugglez mentioned that PGC packaging is not very secure and the parts may be damaged during the delivery process. Anyone experience this? And how severe was it?

I had to sell 2 PGC kits because of their fuckin packaging..... I lost so much money because of that.

There was paint chip and chunks of metal that was missing... STUPID FUCKIN PGC.

I went with the creation kit at the end.... FUCk never again will I purchase PGC..

i've installed both the pgc and the guarder 1911 kits and would recommend the guarder. the pgc finish is BEAUTIFUL but the guarder one is more... velvety, if you've ever seen one of their new gen metal bodies you know what i mean. the trades are crispy on both, but the clincher is that unlike the guarder 226 kit (which is also beautiful) it's a breeze to install, the only part i had issues with was the screw in the frame over the trigger guard which was solved with a shorter screw. the pgc kit took a lot of fiddling to make work perfectly, but when it did it had very impressive gas efficiency.

thus the rundown:
aesthetics: guarder(barely)>pgc but this is personal, i love the "velvety" finish and any wear on it (though it is quite resiliant) looks fantastic and to me, this is more 1911-ey than a flawless wonderfully flat grey.
install: guarder>pgc. the guarder kit, though slightly destructive to the original parts required only minimal filing whereas the pgc kit took a few hours and a lot of problem solving to install.
performance: guarder=pgc. though pgc has better gas efficiency (a few shots past a full mag vs. barely a full mag), i assume that those who care about performance usually field their guns and thus would appreciate a sidearm that ages nicely.
price: guarder>pgc. the two people for whom i installed the kits paid very different amounts for them, the pgc kit cost around 300 and the guarder 160.

Based on what I understood. The different between the two sets of PGC (Same price for more components) is that the first set (Less component) come out first and then the second since they may try to promote their product.

The accuracy of my upgraded 1911 is more or less the same comparing to TM original. I do not have any proper testing tools so I use my personal shooting judgement. I would say either case the guns are more accurate than me. For sure after upgrade, the Slide is better fit and rigid with the Frame. Of course, look much more like real one. This make me recall. I have also brushed the frame slide rail to make the slide blowback fit and move smoothly. The piston head is better fit comparing to TM original, however, the screw-hold is a bit loose when tighten to the Blowback frame so I have inserted a little small plastic washer. (You can do it simply by using hold push to punch a plastic sheet and drill a hole about 2 mm.)

The gas consumption is similar with standard gas. Normally, when you upgrade to metal slide. It takes more Gas. The heavier slide, the higher gas consume. I would think that PGC is using good quality aluminium CNC so that weight is not too heavy. Again I have not used the Guarder so I could not comment.

About the packaging, they come in one carton box about 10x6x1.5 Inch. The slide and barrel are packed inside another smaller carton box, the frame is wrap with the bubble plastic and the other components are in the seal plastic bag.

I hope this information is useful to you all.

Thanks for all the info guys - it is extremely helpful and appreciated!
Based on the advice, I think I'll go the safer route and choose the Guarder set.

Thanks again. :)

safer? or do you mean cheaper? :P