Armalite sniper/DMR
 

I'm wanting to put together a sniper and am looking for some advise/sudgestions.
First off I'm not a noob that needs to be talked out of the sniper roll I've had that conversation with a few noobs my self. And frankly I like to play the sniper roll every now and then. I've played one game where I only shot 20 rounds the whole day. and for anyone that cares 18 of those rounds were kills most being 50 to 100 yards with a KJW M700.
I've worked on a few guns already just not any armalites. I've worked on a G36, Ak and M14.
All of these guns were upgraded to 370 FPS. The M14 is now one of the nicest DMR's on our playing field.

My current plan is to get a cheap base gun then upgrade it to >500 FPS.

The closest I've come to owning an AR is a SCAR L. SO I'm not to sure as to the compatability of different guns. By that I mean models of guns not brands.

So my questions are as follows.

What are some good guns to use as the base to this gun. SR16, M16A4, M4? or does it even matter? in other words I'm looking for a cheap gun don't care if the internals just crapped out as they're going to be replaced any ways. I'm a big fan of TM guns.

What will I need to do for upgraded internals? I've never gone over 370 before. And where are some good places to get parts from? I don't want used internals. I usually deal with Airsoftpart.ca and have dealt with A&A surplus for mags.

Barrels, I've manly used Madbull 6.03 but I would like to go with a 6.02 for this one so what's a good brand?

Airsoftparts has a couple of differint sniper conversions for armalites. Any recomendations, any where else where I can get one. Ideally I would like to have a RIS/RAS with free floating Barrel. I know a free floating Barrel makes no differince in Airsoft I just like the look.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for your help.
Bill

P.S. Please no flaming, I want real advise and please don't post up advise about upgrades if you've never done any yourself. Again this isn't the first gun I've upgraded I'm just new to Armalites and have never taken a gun over 370, but I want this to be a sniper and I like the look of an armalite.

I have an AR DMR that is semi-only and fires at 495-497 fps with 0.25g. Needless to say, I can't use it anywhere except my home field, and it will sting you pretty good at ranges of 150' no problem.

But to operate at those velocities reliably required an investment outside the scope of what you're planning, by a long shot. It's not much help for your project, but just giving you an idea of where it can go, and the possibilites.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1...1036xq1.th.jpg

As I stated earlier I'm wanting to upgrade to just under 500 FPS seeing as that's my club's FPS Limit, at that FPS I'm limited to shooting semi-only, which is no prob for me seeing as this is supposed to be a sniper.

I have a friend who recently upgraded to the same FPS as you but his gun isn't Known for its reliabliety.

Parts I'm looking at from AirsoftParts.ca
Mad Bull Patriot Kit- Sniper Version
King Arms G16 M4 Grip
King Arms M4/M16 metal Accessories Set - sniper (out of stock so probably go with tactical)
Systema M120 V2 Complete Gearbox- M16A2/SR16 or M4A1/M4RIS/M4S System (Not sure what the diff is between them, is it just the wiring?)
King Arms M4/M16 enhanced hop - up unit.

I know that at the FPS I'm wanting to go to I'll need to replace more then this.

You may want to look at a Revolution gearbox/motor set from Systema. They are out now apparently, but not cheap. I would expect them to cost you about $650-$700 by the time it gets to your door. But they're built with the M150 and many PTW technological perks. Semi-only is easy to do.

As far as barrels go, I've only ever used PDI and Prometheus. I can't help you with the Madbull.

The Systema M120 mechbox won't get you up to 500 FPS. You'll still need to change the spring out. The M4A1 version is wired to the front and the M16 version is wired to the rear. You'll need a Systema Magnum motor to pull that kind of spring and a good battery as well. Perhaps infinite torque gears would be a good alternative to the Systema complete gearbox. As McGuyver suggested the new revolution gearbox is also good way to go if you have the cash.

Revo gearbox or PTW or bolt action. Those are your solid choices.

If I were doing this, I'd go this way:
G&P M16A4 base gun (you can keep most of the internals)
Madbull M150 spring
Prometheus double torque gears
Prometheus 6.03 barrel
Extreme-Fire SW-S MOSFET switch
Sanyo NiCad 9.6v large battery
Deans connectors
Leapers 3-9x50 Scope

Good luck

I wouldn't suggest Prometheus double torque gears Namloot. They're the equivalent to mere Systema torque gears (one level above standard ratio), and are not recommended for a M150 spring. You would be fine if you're the type that only takes a shot every now and then, but if you have a chance to fire multiple semi-auto shots in a short duration of time your motor is going to heat up extremely fast because of that mismatched gear ratio.

You also really need triple torque/super torque at a minimum and a higher than 9.6v battery to get a decent trigger response at 500 FPS.

I'd start with a CA or G&P M4.

Decide if you want a full stock (probably) or a collapsible stock.

The front end kit you listed is nice, I've installed one already on an SR25. The JP kit is nice as well.

I've put in several 6.03mm Madbull tightbores. No magic or mystery there...they work well. You must use good bbs...6.03 is getting pretty tight and mis-shapen bbs will jam. AK/M16 length inner barrels are easy to get.

I'd buy a G&P M120 Complete mechbox or Systema mechbox (although I think that they are overpriced for what you're getting comparably). And just reshim the G&P complete.

I'd use a KA Enhanced Hopup unit...just because they've worked well for me so far (installed/used about 10 or so).

With a tight setup with good solid compression...you'll be tickling the 440fps w/ 0.20g bbs range....plenty close enough to the 500fps MAX limit.

A stock TM EG1000, EG700 will pull it...but might not last long. A G&P M120 motor will work, a Guarder Infinite Torque Up motor will be really nice and a Systema Magnum is super-sweet.

That setup and a large 8.4v battery...and you'll be happy. BUT Start with a metal bodied M4 (not dboys) or you'll regret it when you're done the build. WARNING: Once you go metal...you can't go back.

Best of luck...have fun! (what's the min engagement distance for your 500fps max games?)

Tys

I have seen a couple of very interesting things I plan on getting myself at some point...

Systema's M170 gearbox kit
King Arms 24" sniper floating front set

I'm sure people will freak out and scream not to get the M170!!1!1!! But I plan on doing it anyway. If the shell breaks, I can always CNC my own out of low carbon tool steel. I LOVE that fluted floating barrel set and I suggest DON'T get it! I'll be too jealous. Outer barrel spacers are included with the kit, in order to maximize compatibility to whatever AR body you get.

As for inner barrels, I have a Mad Bull 6.03 and a Deep Fire 6.02, both from ArisoftParts.ca, both perform quite well imho.

EDIT: Actually, now that SystemA's Revolution is out, I'd be considering that instead.

I would like thank people so far for their down to earth advise.

I have two madbull 6.03mm. tight bores installed in a G36 k Rail system, and an AK. both shooting 370. The madbull tight bores are nice, but I'm wanting a 6.02 for this sniper package.

M102404 At 500 or under FPS I am not allowed to shoot any one closer then 50' and NO head shots period. It's also expected that I would show a certain amount of restraint as to where I shoot people. There has only been a hand full of snipers that play in the club I'm with and they have always been the more experienced players.

Well, heres what Im doing:

Base gun: KWA KM4A1
GB Im keeping stock except for the spring guide, nozzle and cylinder. Iv talked with KWA and the unported piston works best with KWA guns, so I wouldnt suggest porting it or getting one.
Hopup: I bought a TM hopup unit, firefly bucking, big out h-nub.
Barrel: Prommy 650mm 6.03mm TBB
Since I changed my cylinder out to a type 0 my guns getting 500fps with the stock M120, so my setup is reliable (not going to break at all) and quick trigger response.
P.S. If you're intending to change out your spring, KWA gb's and motors can handle m150 springs, but nothing much more because of the v2 gb being "naturally flaued".
Prob. gunna get flamed to shit for being a "KWA fanboy" but who cares, just my input.

500 fps on a V2 is not "reliable". It will break fairly quickly.

Depends on what gearbox you have. If you're running a MTHaynes or a Pro-Win you can run a SP170 all day and the gearbox will be pristine (can't say that same about the other internals though ;)

There's also the new Ver2fix which claims to stop V2 gearbox breakage although that's so new the jury is still out on it's effectiveness.

He's talking about a stock KWA one though. :rolleyes:

This is something I don't understand. There is nothing special about the design of a KWA AEG that would make their unported piston head work better then a bellows type.

500fps w/ .20g BB I assume?
Are you talking about the stock spring that came with your KWA M4?

With the stock ratio gears?
BTW, there is nothing special about a KWA gearbox that makes it any stronger then other, good quality version 2 gearbox.

500fps on M120:???: your joking right? There is no way you'll get 500 fps on m120 or you got a mislabeled spring.

Don't mind him, he's just a KWA fanboy :p

Dude, Hes not a fanboy. hes giving facts. The KWA was tested with a 16v battery and stood up over 2500 rounds. Try sticking a 16v battery into a stock JG and see what happens, it will strip everything within the gearbox in less than 10 rounds. The KWA gearbox is one of the strongest gearboxes made.

The KWA mechboxes are very nicely built right out of the box.

The solid aluminum piston head is a mistake, IMHO, especially since it is not loc tite'd to it's screw.

The shell has been beefed up near the front...with more material than other version 2 shells. What kind of extra-strength and breakage prevention this provides...couldn't tell you.

I've not seen one break yet...but most have been either shot stock or downgraded to high/mid-300's. Several bags of bbs through each one.

My next build with one will be a low 300fps high speed rig. Nothing over 9.6v...8.4v likely. I'm confident that it'll run for a good long time (or break right away :D).

With a properly built mechbox (components scaled to power, well shimmed, not used in extreme temperatures, etc...)...v2's can perform extremely well for tens of thousands of shots.

But the cheapy clone setups...or the ones cobbled together with crappy cheap parts....well, you get what you pay for. Keep in mind that the cheap stuff runs $70-100 overseas and costs much less to produce. That's getting near disposable...use it for a game, burn it out, toss it and buy a new one. The company has already suceeded in their objective...you've bought it. You're fooling yourself if you think they care one iota about how long it lasts you.

Am I a KWA fan-boy? Not really. No more so than I think G&G, CA and a couple of others have put out good products. I do think that KWA missed the boat on a couple of key points in producing their armalite model:
1. Retaining the split hopup design
2. Requiring a "unique" top hopup unit and nozzle
3. Metal piston head
4. Non-loc-tite'd grub screws that secures the barrel to the chamber (at least there's 4 of them)
5. The ridge on their body stub for the stock tube is annoying.

Other than that...nice build.

Tys

For starters no airsoft battery is 16 volts. They come in increments of 1.2 volts. Or it was on a bench power supply, and in that case it wasn't hooked up to a battery.

Second, 2,500 rounds with any combination of parts is in no way, whatsoever, any test of longevity. I've run a stock TM at 450 FPS with only metal bushings for longer than that.

Third, high ROF and breaking the gearbox don't necessarily go hand in hand. It's usually high FPS that breaks gearboxes sooner than high ROF (although I will say that a gearbox only lasts for so many rounds, and high ROF reaches that number faster).

Last, there's enough posts just on this forum (not to mention world wide) about plenty of people cracking the front off a KWA V2 gearbox, just like the other V2 gearboxes made by other companies.

/end KWA fanboy bashing

Not arguing one point or another...just tossing out a neat test.

I had a whack of spare parts lying around so for kicks I made up a stock TM mechbox, with original components +/-
+ reshimmed, regreased
+ M100 spring
+ Systema Magnum Motor
+ Polycarbonate ventilated piston head
+ 9.6v large (think is was a 2300mah battery? 2200? can't remember)

The ROF was over 1300rpm...just over 300fps. After baselining it (ROF and FPS test), I fed it Midcap after midcap as fast as I could (i have 14), then 2 hicaps (winding continuously) and then I just held down the trigger until it broke (dry fire).

From the baseline and approximately how long it lasted...I figure that it made it between 4000-4500 shots before it made "bad noise". That might not sound like much...but a 3 minute burst is a long time, and it's a lot of bbs in the trap. As soon as I heard something bad, I gave it one more good trigger pull :D, and then stopped.

The only damage that I observed were broken plastic bushings. The gears jammed after the bushings broke and a little bit of plastic wedged between the sector gear and spur gear teeth. It was extremely interesting to note how warm/hot the mechbox shell was (it was cool/cold to the touch when I started).

The gearbox shell was pristine when I cleaned it up...still have it.

Not a be-all-end-all test of any sort...far from it. Just something to say, if you want to see how long something will last...run it until it breaks.

Want to build a 500fps rifle...go ahead. Want to know how long it lasts? Shoot it until it breaks. Want it to last longer? Change something and try again.

Yeah, the hopup unit is unique in the sense that the ridge provides perfect alignment, theres no advantage of a one peice unit being better than a two peice.
The piston head on the other hand...
Why would KWA assemble a amazing gun and screw one thing up?

P.S. KWA is also a automotive parts company before airsoft, they have engineers and a extensive lab to test their AEG's to find the best performance, your just dicking perfection by changing out your KWA's piston head. Pardon the language.

1.2v x 7 = 8.4v
1.2v x 7 = 8.4v
8.4v + 8.4v = 16.8v
Hook'er up in series.
People round the voltage of batteries, cars are a good example, do you really think a car is 12v exact, not really, their 12.6v, each cell is 2.1v, do the math
2.1 x 6 = 12.6v

Heres the link to the people who did the 16v test, it was 8 high-caps actually :)
http://www.airsoftgi.com/article_info.php?articles_id=7

Agreed with the /end.