Which gun should i get?
 

Hello everyone,

I was simply wondering which gun would be better to buy in terms of the internal and external quality of these guns.

http://www.torontoairsoft.com/Veloci...re_p_3814.html


--) Velocity Arms M4 4" TX CQB /w 200mm Silencer Power Up - Made by DeepFire (Custom made for Canada - Rare)

Or

http://www.uppercanadatactical.com/C...sion_p_73.html


--) Classic army M15A4 Full metal carbine - Spartan Version

I've heard many good reviews on Classic Army; great internals and externals although I've also heard that Deepfire are one of the best in terms of internal quality.

Thanks in advance,

If it has to be between those two a deep fire is better. Saving for a VFC is highly recommended.

I hope that 2016 brings an end to these threads. ugh

could we have an F.A.Q. sticky covering this subject and then make every new member read it and agree not to ask about it again? As for which one I would choose, I concur with pesto Deep fire internals look much better quality.

Well... I get it. Some people have been around, and have seen these questions come up a lot. On the other hand, here is someone that may be new to the sport/hobby, and who is actively seeking advice from the people that have been around.

Online reviews are usually biased. It's like reading a TripAdvisor review... you have to read a fuckton of them, and then make up your own mind. And technology changes. What good is a FAQ from 12 or 18 months ago?

Or... you could ask someone that may have a lot of first-hand knowledge and experience. I know that, 2 years ago when I started into Airsoft, I felt intimidated to ask the exact same question.

If these questions are so bothersome, I would suggest just ignoring them. But if you feel like maybe encouraging someone new, then take 30 seconds and answer the question (which, at least, you did).

Hey look, another thread where we complain about new guys asking new guy questions. No wonder the trend is to abandon this forum for Facebook. I hope 2016 brings an end to the whining.

The problem with stickied posts is most of them are extremely out of date and should be deleted. Stuff that says TM and CA AEGs are good, the import thread, prices in the classifieds... Those stickies should really be cleaned up or taken down. The Deep Fire guns are also fairly new on the market in Canada.

^---- this

People need to stop flaming noobs for asking a simple question and maybe, just maybe people will come back to this site as opposed to the ASC FB page.

Technology and product are constantly changing and if you are new to the game, advice from a vet might be well worth taking the time to ask.

I would rather steer someone in the right direction and help the person potentially not waste money than flame someone.

Like Pesto said, save up for a VFC or a KWA
(the bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten)

not everyone reads the stickies... there are some that will still demand their entitlements be spoonfed to them on a silver spoon.


however, this thread is doing a specific comparison between 2 models, not just a "I don't know what to get" thread. So this guy already has a budget and 2 models in mind, which is far more than what some noobs out there do before getting to the point of asking a very open what to buy thread.

honestly, my choice would be neither if budget is a concern. I'd go lower end to save money just to get playing, there is not as much difference between low end vs mid level guns except maybe 100-150$ difference. My argument is that you could spend that difference on some good upgrades like air seal and sorbo on a lesser gun and end up with a better shooter than the mid level gun. The quality difference of parts out of the box is not very noteworthy. From my point of view I'd be gutting both a 200$ gun and a 400$ gun.

also bear in mind cause a retailer says its rare doesnt mean its actually rare.

And if its rare on the field its either crappy and no one uses it, or its actually rare (like WA magna rare or marushin rare)

But bro I wanna know about old school guns.. Mp7 aep and wa gbbrs!

Since people would rather talk about whether or not we should help the new guy, I'll help the new guy.

Keep away from Classic Army guns, they will break very quickly. VA is meh, keep away from that gun too. For a beginner, I HIGHLY recommend a G&G M4 or Ares Amoeba series gun. They are both great for their price points and will allow you to figure out what style of play suits you best

IMHO, buy a plain-jane M4 if an AR is what you want, learn to use it as it is, then add cool bits as you need them. Save up a bit more money and buy a better base gun, like a VFC as others have suggested.

The reason for this is that as you play the game more, you may 'outgrow' one of the guns you posted, or encounter parts failures, and then it's toast. Something like a VFC will hold up better overall, and accept more/ better internals, upgrades, and accessories as you want/ need them.

90% of the stuff that gets pasted onto an AR is fluff and flair, and confers no actual benefit to the user except where the user already has some familiarity with the platform and knows exactly what function the part serves, when, and why.
I see lots of very competent players who suddenly become clueless when handed a stock AR, or one that isn't configured exactly like their own.
Stuff like suppressors are especially bad for this, because they literally serve no function other than to make a carbine as long as a rifle, and/ or hide an extended inner barrel.

Fun time pretty stuff money is always better spent on going up a tier with the base gun. Buying one with a rail kit is probably a good idea, but by the time you'll be putting fancy crap all over your AR, you might want a fancy rail kit that you special order or whatever anyway.

https://vimeo.com/102830089


Edit: As for the eternal ASC dramalama bing-bong, maybe just stay out of the weekly "Make up my mind" threads if you think they're annoying. Some of us like coddling newbies if we have the time, and especially where the stickies are as obselete as a Sten Mk II, somebody's got to do it. The whole "Fuk u, lurk moar" culture died the day social media opened the flood gates.

If ASC is going to stay relevant at all it's got to brand itself as a bastion of quality information that is also accessible. If someone jumps in with something truly retarded, fine, fuck'em. Taking the time to register, float around, and ask a question is so far above the bar for people's attention spans these days it pretty much deserves to be rewarded.

man, idk, i won't choose any of those 2...
DF i barely heard about them, CA is sorta EHHHHH...

Comparing to CA I would rather go for a KA. The internal seem really nice to me (im not a gun doc or anything, but it seems pretty good)
DF SOUNDS great if you play both CQB and outdoors..but how the internals are is remain unknown unless you can find someone that have it and opened it.

IF you are short on cash, I'd rather get a brand people know...or even just a G&G LOL

EDIT: Since M4 mags are pretty much universal (ofc not exactly), switching to a another M4 usually works out. So buy good mags...

I haven't opened a new KA in years, but they definitely used to be 'Highly Acceptable'.
Pretty nice bodies and fitment, bad trigger harnesses, pretty underwhelming compression system, but definitely a good starting point.

I'm still using one that got gutted and rebuilt. I'll probably be using it for years to come. Unless they really shit the bed in the last 3-4 years, I'd call them a solid middle-of-the-road. Run it till it dies, then upgrade kind of thing.

^---- that too

KA M4s are mediocre, slightly above CA and DeepFire but still not very good.

my preference would be the KA over the CA and deepfire.

I would rather go KA than CA because over the years, I've heard of splotchy quality control with CA airsoft. Stuff like broken gearbox parts and such. You were playing the lottery with CA guns where you could either get a REALLY good gun, or a crappy one that almost broke out of the box. KA is more like a baseline where it's not very good, but not horrible, but reliable.

CA uses soft steel screws on all their guns. Most of the time, the assembler already stripped the threads during assembly. Not only a screw was stripped on the M4 gear box, the phillips head was stripped and the assembler didn't even have the brains to replace it before shipping. I had to drill it out to remove it.

I bought a total of three CA guns, everyone of them with almost all the screws stripped. Never again I will buy CA.

I noticed that my VFC and G&P guns came with YFS 12.9 grade alloy screws. Much better quality guns.

I think the change over to facebook may have more to do with convenience than our sometimes juvenile way of dealing with trolls. I for one am all for helping new people join the sport/hobby, my problem is with spoon feeding information that can be easily found with a modicum of effort searching.

On the topic of King Arms I am a huge fan of their metal receivers, as this is the one part of the gun that is not easy or cheap to replace I put a higher value on this piece as anything else can be found and replaced without much trouble.

unique serial numbers, CNC trademarks, uniform anodizing, very nice fit and finish and I want to believe they are 6061 aluminum compared to most zinc pot metal.

I would say that KA internals are in the middle ground in terms of quality.

My advice is to shop around the reputable Canadian retailers, there are plenty of good deals to be had at this time of the year.

Sorry to burst your bubble, KA uses pot metal

If you want billet machined aluminum, I believe RA Tech has a M4 with a billet milled receiver.

Don't be, you are right and I just learned something new. I still feel the same about KA external quality when compared with cyma, dboy, etc...

With my gun in hand right now I notice the paint on the KA receiver looks so similar to anodized aluminum it had me fooled the whole time. My buffer tube I can tell is anodized aluminum and without the the scratches its hard to tell the receiver is painted.

http://i.imgur.com/ZEhKBjx.jpg

The best exteriors still is VFC. I have G&P and that is nice as well.

I know a few guys with Krytacs, but I haven't looked at them close enough to confirm the exterior quality compared to VFC.

But ultimately the best of them all is TM no question.

I wasn't suggesting it's the only reason, but it's undoubtedly contributing to the problem of the shrinking number of people using this form, that was my point.

If someone has a problem with "spoon feeding", then don't reply to the thread, it's that simple. Or make a constructive comment on where/how they can find the info they're looking for, without the all too common condescending tone. If someone is trolling the worst thing you can do is respond. That's exactly what they want.

What you see as spoon feeding others may not. I think we forget that we were all new at one point, we let the large number of these threads have a cumulative effect. As was mentioned already in this thread, most stickies and older threads that come up with a search, are out of date and the info is bad info/advice.

Also, "Google it" is pretty useless advice, even when it isn't snarky. If you don't already know where to look for good information or price checks, googling just about anything airsoft related is a shitshow. Easily 80% of the stuff out there is youtube videos made by children under 16, or pure marketing.
Being able to fire off a quick question and being able to let it simmer away is pretty much the entire point of web forum format anyway, and with thread necros being looked upon as so incredibly evil, people may as well just pop on, ask a question, have it resolved, and move on. Nevermind using the search function to pull up a decade of similar keywords to find old information that may no longer be relevant.

I think forums crumbudgeons don't really know how high the stacks of newspapers and soda cans have built up around us, and that we're living in an information hoard where we tell the neighbors "Get your own!" when they offer to haul off some of the scrap.

i agree with your thought..
cause airsoft guns are...imo very hard to compare...thus quick search is actually pretty useless..unless some did a "take it apart" online

companies (most retailers) almost NEVER tell you what they put into their product and they are probably not required to. They don't tell you what is in the gearbox, they dont tell you what grade metal, they mostly just write fps, weight, length, a brief selling point, and then say it's a great gun and call it a day.

so it became a stupid thing where the person who bought the gun and sank his or her money into it have to come out and tell people that it's crap. Then it just became reading the brand name instantly returns no or yes...

I just went on G&G's website, and the information is still lacking..even on their own webpage... :banghead:

Forums are great place for providing information but sifting though tons of old and sometimes defunct threads for the info you need takes alot more effort than asking again for what has already been covered 10+ threads already. So we have an information overload with contradicting advice, its no wonder the same questions come up over and over. I am not speaking specifically about the OP but in general.

Perhaps a complete and comprehensive review section is needed, a resource we can sort alphabetically, by brand, by product, etc. Everyone who is a member can contribute regardless of AV status and there could be rating system e.g cost, quality, performance. Then we could up vote the most helpful posts.

It could be a one stop shop where people could compare at a glance, I would gladly provide information and photos of guns that come across my work bench to fill out such a review system and make it viable.

I do a face palm every time I see

What should I get, a Pulse R76 or crossman zombie hunter extreme?!?

How can I make my airsoft gun kill magpies better?

Hahahaha, yeah. I was trying to be nice in the Magpie thread, but part of me was really like "What, is this nineteen thirty fucking five? Got a lot of costume jewelery that needs protecting? Two rows of corn that you've got to hang on to at all costs or the pigs will starve over winter? Well hot damn. I'll grab my 30-30 and we'll get us a stew going."

I'm sure we've face palmed over many of the same threads. Unfortunately, you just can't stop those threads from popping up unless you restrict and censor people's ability to post and/or create threads. Up-to-date and maintained stickies, would no doubt be beneficial in providing a link to answer some of the simple repetitive questions inherent to new players. But those stickies aren't necessarily going to reflect everyone's opinions or experiences, and they certainly can't speak to every individual situation. There's always going to be another person around the corner asking a question. Whatever the case, I think we can agree that whining, flaming, and being condescending isn't going to stop repetitive threads from popping up. The greater problem would seem to be in the housekeeping; but on a free forum run by volunteers it's exactly what one would expect.

Searches are sorted by newest first. So it would seem to me, old outdated threads (which are inevitable) really aren't that much of a problem, provided there are new up-to-date threads that bury them. Long, 30+ page threads (built up over time) on one topic, certainly have their benefits. But they tend get derailed frequently, and become a nightmare for new people to sort through and know where to start reading or how to determine what is still valid.

A comprehensive review section would be great, It would no doubt, result in some of those 30+ page reviews. Unfortunately people rarely seem to use the review section we have. I would definitely be on board with up-voteable posts/threads (forum-wide).

I got frustrated over seeing a lot of these, so I went and wrote this a little while back. Let me know if there's other stuff you want me to add in my free time.

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=170942

(Oh, and please don't continue the Ford bashing lol.)