Good range for a GBB
 

Question:

What is considered a good range for a GBB. Can they hold up against AEGs?

I have a TM Hi Capa 5.1 and i use propane for it.It seems to outrange some AEGs. Any clue what the normalrange for a Hi Capa is?

The range of a GBB depends on temperature and type of gas used. Propane on a summer day will normally give you an FPS of over 300, which is higher than the 280 of a stock AEG. So yea, you can outrange a stock AEG easily.

err, FPS does not equal range. You're comparing apples to oranges. As for the hicapa, yes it can reach ranges equal to that of a stock AEG. Other GBBs? Well it depends on the GBB. Some GBBs have good range, some have good power. Some have both, some don't.

Yes, FPS does equal range. Doesn't have to mean accurate range, but, yes, it does mean range.

Possibly in real steel terms. However not in airsoft terms. The ballistics in airsoft are much different. Range on an airosft rifle depend on inner barrel length and a properly tuned hopup. There are many variables that affect an airsoft guns range, FPS and performance.

Two guns with properly adjusted hop-ups and the same length barrel. The one with a higher FPS will shoot farther.

Barrel length and diameter affect the flight of the bb by giving the bb a greater length to accelerate, therefore increasing FPS, and by stabilizing the bb, so it doesn't wobble as much. (Real bullets, including tank shells, all wobble a little bit after leaving the barrel)

By FPS i mean the speed the bb is moving when exiting the barrel.

A higher FPS bb always has more potential to go farther than a slower bb of the same type.

Yes, but as you point out, this holds true when you take two guns with the same hop-up and barrel lenght. An AEG and a GBB are likely to have no where near the same specifications for these components, so more FPS does not always equal more range.

Grim is still right, FPS is not range.

If you have absolutely no hop-up at all, your rifle would still fire at the normal FPS, it just wouldn't go very far after it went 6-7 inches out of the barrel.

This is irrelevant to how you said
FPS is a FACTOR of range but does not allow you to determine the range of your projectile.

FPS is the biggest factor.

actually a proper hopup is the biggest factor. if your hop is shitty, your range will suck. unless youre being a stickler and saying that something goes further if it's got more force behind it because i cant deny that. what use is more distance if you cant predict where it's goin? from now on, range will mean effective target whacking distance, not distance in general, and for that sir you need a nice hop.

a properly tuned hicapa has ludicrous range thanks to tm's nice hop and barrel unit. pistols also get less wear put on them than aegs so it's safe to assume that a used tm aeg with an old bucking and older style tm hop system (the hicapas is reasonably new) will have less range than a newish hicapa. that doesnt mean it's easier to peg people at distance with it. i found that (with my hicapa) the shots may travel in a straight line but placing said line where you want it to be is rather tough for long shots, and following up a nice shot is a lot harder than just setting an aeg to auto and following the white stream of victory.

as for the original question, if conditions are right you can quite easily hit an unsuspecting target at 70ft with a hicapa, but it being a pistol, you'll find most of your hits will be within 45ft.

Hop-Up is crap. Squeezing a BB to create backspin sucks,. Causes huge inconsistancies bewteen shots. I take out the hop up in all my gas guns. My Super KSC G19 which has a 178mm tightbore, can hit a coke can at over 200 feet with a .2g bb every shot. It shoots about 450 FPS. Hop up is gay, if you have serious power and a long barrel you dont need it. manchovie, youre nuts if you think hop-up increases consistancy with range, all it does is increase range and totally screws up accuracy and precision ,which is why all Japanese target race guns dont use hop-up!!!!

PS, the more hop-up you have, the less power you have, Hop-ups just squeeze BBs to creat backspin, when you turn off or take out the hop up you are no longer forcing the BB thru the tight ass hop up unit, so more power goes to projecting the BB.

Either you're new to airsoft or you just lack intelligence.

If your BB does not spin, it will not be able to penetrate air resistance as well as a spinning BB.

An airsoft without hop-up will shoot a BB that may have a high muzzle velocity, but the projectile will fall VERY rapidly.

Ever have a gas gun with no hop up and a long ass inner barrel ?

Maruzen Mp5k with 300mm inner barrel, hits coke cans every shot at 300feet.
NO HOP UP
http://sixtyfoot.com/ipw-web/gallery...0093.sized.jpg

NO HOP UP
KWA MAC11 with 200mm inner barrel, hits coke cans every shot at 250+feet
http://sixtyfoot.com/ipw-web/gallery...0611.sized.jpg

NO HOP UP
KSC G19 with 178mm inner barrel, hits coke cans every shot at 200+feet
http://sixtyfoot.com/ipw-web/gallery..._003.sized.jpg

You dont know shit if you think BBs will drop "very rapidly" without hopup. Are you sure YOU'RE not new to airsoft ??? Why do you think the Japs use target race guns that have no hop-up? geee I wonder

Hop-up is for backspin, to give the bb lift so it can counter the force of gravity and go farther.

A gun with no hop-up will still have some spin, but probably front spin. If it didn't spin at all, the bb would fly all over the place, just like a knuckle ball in baseball. This has to do with the turbulent flow around the bb/ball. If it spins enough, the low air pressure point at the wake of the bb stays in relatively constant position. With no spin, the low pressure point wanders around and disturbs the path of the bb/ball.

You do realize that a 450 FPS pistol is totally overkill? The whole point of sidearms for the most part, is to have a lower -powerd bakc up gun that you can use to engage at closer ranges, like, whats the point of having a pistol with THAT much power just to be able to engage that (which i doubt, I would like to see proof of this 200 foot shot on .2s on a coke can). or the MP5K's hit at 300+ feet. I Decalre that your either a liar, or you can't measure/approximate distance for shit.

Where is my proof?

My 400 FPS C7A2, M16A2 length tightbore, with no hop up, will NOT shoot that far.

Hm... Looks like my 400FPS AK equipped with a tightbore is outranged by a pistol as well :lol:
ILL9MIL, don't know where you get that range/accuracy man, but from what I've seen/experienced poorly adjusted hop up will get you nowhere at long range during games.

A well designed hopup can add alot of accuracy, but they are few and far between in airsoft. A few models do an excellent job, most add quite a bit of innaccuracy.
For game ranges at reasonable FPS, a hopup is the only realistic way to maintain decent accuracy at range, without being silly and lobbing your shots.

If you're looking for medium or short range, hopup is just getting in the way, but you need to make up for it's absence with alot of power.

It just depends what angle you're coming from. A 450fps pistol wouldn't even be permitted at most games here, so it's kind of moot if it has good accuracy, and I'm not sure I'd like to run up against it in CQB all that much. So it may be more accurate, but race guns aren't for gaming. I think you guys are talking from different ends of the spectrum. Everybody try and stay friends.

if you guys are talking about FPS(feet per second) its the speed of BB's at a certain distance. compare two AEG or GBB with the same inner barrel lenght. one upgraded and stock. I will not tell the difference. its up for the noobs to find out.

I use enchanted bb's sprinkled with fairy dust.

Your sewing machines don't shoot that far because, well the're made for sewing.

8O

:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...hanted_bbs.jpg

sorry i couldn't help it.

My C7 isn't set up for high ROF or any type of support "sewing machine" role, its set up for accurate fire, as a sort of tac. marksman. It is built for accuracy, and without hop it wont make 250+ feet, I still declare shinanigans on you.

HAHAHAHA Jugglez that was the funniest shit Ive seen in a while

C7 guy, just because your sewing machine doesnt sew fast, doesnt make it any less of a machine made for sewing. BTW my pants are ripped and require your assistance. :hammer:

damn, guys... someone get a fuckin' metre-wheel thing and measure out 100 feet.

then measure 300 feet.

I'm positive that there's no plastic BB in the world that weighs anything under a 'whole helluvalot morethana' gram that could even come REMOTELY close to a stable shot to 300 feet.

Consider a .22 cal LEAD PELLET, travelling some 650 feet per second. It takes a NOTICEABLE delay to travel the full length of my local shooting range, and at that range (330 feet) it has dropped AT LEAST 5 feet from the point of aim. Accuracy is marginal at best.

I call RAGING SCREAMING BULLSHIT, if you think your "race guns" can push performance better than that, with airsoft projectiles.

Grab a ruler and start walking. Before anybody starts talking about the performance of their guns, I'd like to hear that they've actually gone ahead and MEASURED the distances they're talking about. It's such a misleading bunch of crap the way people throw phrases like "At 100 feet" around...

I also call "dumb thread".

The simple answer was: Hicapa gets remarkably good range for a stock GBB.

Yes, with propane, it seems to outrange some AEGs.

It probably has to do with a combination of factors. Hop-up and FPS may have something to do with it, but in general, we're not physicists, so beyond our "best guesses", we're not really sure why!

From a bench with a .177cal pellet and a rifled barrel with an FPS of around 500, its almost impossible to tag a popcan with any degree of accuracy out to 300 feet. You're trying to tell me you can do this with a smooth bore barrel and with a bb. I don't think so.

I regularly shoot 10m (approx 33 feet) with a couple of target pistols (webley tempest, and Weihrauch HW40PCA) and thats hard to do. At 10m I can get a 2.0" ctc on average when I am having a good day. With an airsoft pistol, forget it, I wouldn't even bother measuring the ctc. Now you're telling me you can get a ctc of around 2.0" with an airsoft pistol at 300 feet, because a ctc of 2.0" is basically a pop can being hit consistently. You are very mistaken. The air pistols I shoot are far more accurate than any airsoft pistol, they both shoot around 500fps; they both use .177 lead pellets with steel rifled barrels. What you are describing is not possible. It would be hard to hit a popcan consistantly with a scoped .22lr bolt action rifle at 300' (a football field) unless you are a skilled marksman. At 10m with a mid grade pellet rifle I can shoot a .75 ctc over 10 pellets. At 300 feet it goes out the window.

Ya, I agree with Vipa. FPS is a factor of range. The other factors may include barrel length, barrel tightness, BB weight, wind speed, hopup etc.

But FPS is a major factor.

what's with all this hopup bashing, 9mil? it adds a lot to the game. it's fair to say if youre playing airsoft, youre playing with a gun with hopup because it IS a step forward. if range was so insane without it, wouldnt airsoft sniper rifles not have it? it may make the shots slightly less constant but at least they go forward instead of arcing, making it overall easier to hit people and that's what counts.

I will use whatever means to make my gun shoot farther, harder and more accurate. All guns are different and have different requirements to achieve decent results.

Some guns work better with a hopup. If your guns don't need hopup then have yourself a merry christmas and a happy new year. I still have a hard time believing they are that accurate at 300' but who cares what I think. You can make the claim and I can choose to think it's 100% bull plop.

Well said.

how about this no hop up it can shoot at 300+ meters accurate. using enchanted BB's.......har har har.... :mrgreen:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/Hodni/jaded50.jpg

That's an awesome gun damage I dream to build my own like that one day.

Bernoulli's principle as applied to an airsoft pellet is as follows. As a spinless spherical pellet flies along its trajectory through the air (the air being the "fluid" in this case) the pressures on all sides of the pellet are equal because the air is traveling the same velocity relative to the surface of the pellet. If a spin is applied to the pellet about an axis perpendicular to the velocity vector (e.g, a backspin) the air will be rushing faster (relative to the pellet surface) on the side that is spinning away from the velocity vector and slower on the side that is spinning towards the velocity vector. Bernoulli's principle says this difference in fluid velocity implies a difference in pressures, which is a force that will cause the pellet to move in a direction perpendicular to the velocity vector.
Airsoft hop-up devices apply a backspin to the pellet so that the pressure force acts on the pellet opposite the direction that gravity is pulling it. This causes the pellet to fall less over a given distance than it would without the spin applied to it.
In airsoft guns this is often implemented as a rubber piece at the rear of the barrel that is thicker at the top of the barrel than the bottom. As the pellet moves past this piece it tends to roll, inducing a backspin. This is usually adjustable so that the effect can be tuned.

more on this can be found here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft#Airsoft
:tup:

I know this is a very old thread, but I would like to add something.

If you drop two BBs from the same height at the same time, but give BB #2 forward momentum, they will both hit the ground at the same time. The BB is going in 2 directions, FORWARD and DOWN. If the BB is shot perfectly strait, then gravity is the only thing forcing it down. So if they'll hit the ground at the same time, then the faster the BB is going, the farther it will get before hitting the ground.

The hopup is the next factor. Markedman did a very good job of explaining the physics involved in this.

The question now is, which is a bigger factor. I believe the velocety is although I don't have proof to back that up. But I think it is quite obvious. The velocety is also needed in order for the backspin to even exist. The higher the FPS the more the BB will spin, although a heavier BB would be needed so that it wont spin too much.

Real-Steal guns don't have hop-up (of course) but if you found 2 rounds that are the same wieght and aero-dynamics, but one fires at a higher velocety, which do you think would go further? (I guess .308 and 30-06 would be a good example?)

Mark

My Stock Hi-Capa outranges stock AEGs on propane easy....more accurate too.