WE Tech SCAR, open bolt GG vs AWSS CO2
 

So I've heard a lot about the new open bolt system solving any problem you could think of and I've been waiting for the drop-in kit to come out, But I wanted to know from AWSS users (preferably CO2) who switched to the open bolt design if it was worth it. I saw a YouTube vid from WETTI answering questions from gasguns and they said something about the AWSS working perfectly with CO2. WE also said they would continue producion of the AWSS for law enforcement only since it ran better with CO2 than green gas in their open bolt. Right now I'm running propane, but I could easily switch to CO2 if it helps. So basically the question is which is more efficient/which handles better.

Keep in mind I have a Gen 3, so the stock plate is not an issue with CO2.

P.S. If I grab the open bolt kit when it comes out, does it require different mags than the AWSS?

Thanks in advance

Not 100% on everything else but yes, the open bolt system requires slightly different mags, but there is also a $3 conversion you can buy for the mags you have to go to open bolt.

So people who own the we scar can open it up and plop an open bolt assembly kit into their gun, mod their magazines and done? Or is this only for law enforcement training?

I believe that is correct, Ross. From my listening to that interview or whatever the video clip, my understanding was:

The closed bolt system will remain in production and will only be available for purchase by LE.

To us, the general public/consumers, when the open bolt hits the market, that will be the only gas system from WE we can purchase (both the SCAR and M4/HK416 are going to be updated)... or something like that. Those with closed bolt SCAR's can purchase a conversion kit to update their own SCAR, as well as the magazine conversion kit.

well, hopefully it won't be too expensive. I just put a longer inner barrel into this thing. I bet it won't be compatible with it.

hey guys - i've literally spent the last hour or so looking thru this thread as i am in the midst of making my first GBBR acquisition this season --- does anyone suggest waiting for the release of the commercially available WE open bolt guns? or picking up a current closed bolt system and also getting the upgrade set from RA tech to cover the issues? cheers.

shiz! posted the above reply in the incorrect thread. corrected!

Well, since the M4 open bolt isn't released yet, only time will tell. If you want the latest and greatest, I would get a factory open bolt... but that's just because it will have the latest version of everything, stock.

Sorry to dig this thread back out, but are the RA-Tech upgrades a good alternative to the open bolt kit? Will they fix the same problems that the open bolt kit does?

Well currenty retailers have closed bolt systems in stock, those will not magically disapear with the release of the open bolt system. Unless you are in a huge hurry to buy a WE why not wait the few weeks? That way you'll be able to read a few reviews a better decide which is the right product for you.

The big issue with this gun is the hop up design. It just flat out doesn't work like it should. Ra-tech's upgrades will fix a lot of things. Especially in the trigger assembly. If you buy the npas and one of ra-tech's precision barrels, you have to mod the npas with sand paper to get it to fire. The Ra-tech stinger hop ups aren't much of an improvement. I've bought 4 of them. It's probably as good as it's going to get, but it's still garbage compared to any other hop up design.
The open bolt kit gives you the same hop up that is found in gbb pistols. They work, and it's that's worth it. Considering the 80 dollar investment gives you a whole new trigger assembly, it's a good price.

given that WE has released the open bolt drop in kit for the SCAR recently, do you think this will increase the overall reliability of the gun? some threads even on gasguns.info recommend the SCAR over the M4 as a more robust platform when jumping into the GBBR world for the first time. i don't mind getting my hands dirty but i'd like to invest in a sturdy platform with good reliability.

I have no experience with the we m4. But I do know that the internals are pretty much the same. Same brass tube design, same valve, same hop up. It just has a completely different body structure. I think the barrel is a little longer too by default. The reason why I chose the scar over the m4 is purely cosmetics. I like the rails all over it and I even like the look of the boot stock that everyone hates lol. I don't know why gasguns.info said that the scar is more robust than the m4. It's almost the same gun.

I do believe the scar will function much more consistently with the open bolt kit. And so will the m4 when they release the open bolt kit for that too. However the trigger assembly stuff will still probably break over time.

If your looking for more reliability right now. I suggest the Kjw m4. But I'd still take my we scar over that gun because I put a lot of time into this bucket of bolts and I want to see this thing perform great one day.

From my experience the open bolt has been reliable and accurate. At first I purchased the we pdw closed bolt and immediately experienced double feeding issues, horrible accuracy and poor hop up adjustments. After purchasing the open bolt kit all of my issues went away.

As for power there is a video from RA tech stating that the open bolt kit increased the scar's fps by 100 fps. I think it is outrageous that they claim 100 fps but I will say that there is a fps increase. I've tested this theory myself with a closed bolt scar and my open bolt pdw. The scar with .25g bb's was chronoing an average 380 fps while my open bolt pdw with .25g bb's was chronoing an average 430 fps (15 degree's celcius)

music to my ears

Well the drop in kit is in stock at RA-Tech, so I think I'll go with that after what you said about the hop-up.

Thanks for the insight guys

Just an fyi, the we scar open bolt kit has really really!!!!!! Strong recoil. I've smashed 2 hinge plates (part 66 on scar), with only 7 shots to each plate. Has anyone else installed the open bolt kit and have this issue. I will post pictures of the hinge plates tonight.

Are you using c02 or gas mags?

Not surprised, GGI had few people where they break hinge plate within 1 mag. Don't shoot scar stock folded. It's the best solution, Second one is use hfc134a.

Well that would make sense. There's not enough support to hold off those recoil.

I'm using GG mags in the basement. Both hinge plates were snapped shouldering the scar.

Here are the hinge plates.

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/a...h/IMG_0891.jpg

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/a...h/IMG_0892.jpg

What fps is it shooting at? And did you upgrade to a steel bolt ?

It is shooting at 415 average with .2's and the bolt is the one that came in the kit.

Whats the serial number on the receiver?

for the black scar i have its 0000185 and for the tan scar it is 0000673

http://static.bf2s.com/files/user/31...0a%20Bingo.jpg

BINGO!!!

There is your reason right there. Both those SCARS are gen1 and do now have any of the upgraded or reinforced parts that the current gen does.

Good to know! Now the next question would be, what was reinforced and where can I get it. I ordered 2 new hinge plates from Evike, will those be the next gen reinforced ones?

The hinge plate, and the nozzle as well as the mag was changed. As well as some internal parts. I don't recall all as they are currently on gen3 SCARS. I suggest you read the AWSS thread on asc as well as go to gasgun info.

http://gasguns.info/forum/viewforum.php?f=7

There is bound to be an itemized list for you somewhere. And the new hinge plate is suppose to be reinforced.

Avoid Evike like STDS.

Good luck.

Great thanks for the advice. I don't mind buying from evike because I have a cousin in LA that knows the owner. So I just get her to pick it up and ship it to me :)

doesn't the nozzle get replaced by the pistol-esque conversion? the newer version nozzle gets 4 structural posts instead of 3, but if it gets replaced by a completely different system, there's not much point, right?

Also, mags shouldn't matter one way or the other, because the feed mechanism changes with the open bolt conversion, and the valve in the bolt is responsible for the amount of gas directed towards the BB vs the amount directed at recoil.... as well as the total amount of gas allowed into the mechanism from the mag. Once the bolt moves to a certain point, it resets the valve knocker/firing pin, and gas stop flowing into the bolt.

Reinforcing the mag would allow higher internal pressure and/or more gas storage, but shouldn't affect mag reliability. higher pressure would cause faster cycle times, and REDUCE the hinge plate life, so i'm not sure what mag reinforcement would accomplish ??

Where would you suggest ordering reinforced hinge plates from? I broke mine a couple months ago, and luckily had a spare, but I'm not sure if either were reinforced, and I likely have an early model scar as well...

My serial ends with 1761, is that gen 2?

Yes it is.

where do we buy these conversion kits?

https://www.ratech.com.tw/store/

has them in their store... I just need to find out if the mag conversions are the same for all of the mags to open bolt.... O.o and where to get a new reinforced hinge plate...

I've been doing a ton of searching and have not yet found a "reinforced" hinge plate just stock hinge plates. I contacted airsoftbuddy about the hinge plate and they informed me they were passing the comment onto TSC. I just hope TSC does make a hinge plate. Other then that you could try what this individual did with a PVC block.
http://gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic....t=3318&start=0

Based on your pic, you maybe able to fabricate this steel plate?

I have the open bolt scar. I have latest hinge plate and it's doing just fine. Part 27 exploded though. No one makes them except W.E. I'm getting 2 replacements in through a retailer. I am planning on soldering some aluminum sheets onto the parts that break. Only bad thing about doing that is that I can no longer slide the bolt out without unhexing part 27.

I'm surprised the plastic hinge plate withstood the beating over the metal part 27

the metal part 27 is made of pot metal. Which as we all know is the particle board of metals. I phoned around to see about getting the part cnc'd but it costs around 800 dollars.

Thanks man, I don't think I'm going to sell my SCAR now for a rediculous price just to get a friggin realistic GBBR.

LOL at the open bolt term :rolleyes: wonder who started that

damn, after reading through this whole thread.. its really starting to persuade me into changing my WE M4 to a open bolt.. but i'll probably wait for another month or so after it is released to see if it is as good as they say.

I can't find their open bolt magazine conversions anywhere except evike... Anyone found them anywhere else?

Hey all,

I'm planning to get myself one of these babies next week. I think this is one of the best value for money GBBRs out today, including the WE G39? I was already saving up cash to get the G39 when the SCAR caught my eye on the RATECH vid....mag dumped 27 rounds (assuming there was 30 bbs, the guy fired 3 in semi) and there was no cool down whatsoever (and this was with the RATECH heavy bolt! - which is in development). Plus the SCAR has full trades (I think) whereas the G39...doesnt. :P

I've got a few questions to ask for those who have the "open bolt" SCAR:

1. How's the recoil? Comparable to the G39? So far I've gathered that the G39's recoil is similar to a 9mm cal gun. If the SCAR has stronger recoil then that'll be great (I want it to be as close to real steel as possible).

2. Besides the RATECH vid showing the mag dump, can you guys also mag dump your SCARs (just in case RATECH did something with their gun and the SCAR isn't really that good OOTB).

3. How many bbs can you get with a single fill of the mag with green gas and how many mag dumps can you do with a single mag before the ROF significantly drops? I'm hoping the mags are blessed by magic like the WE G39 ones that can work in snow (yes, HK doesn't snow but with the humidity and the low temperatures right now I want to know whether it can perform as well as the G39!)

4. Are the flashider threads 14+ or 14-? I've read on gasguns.info that for some reason there are different batches of SCARs (the old 'closed bolt' ones) that had 14- threading, whilst the SCARs generally have 14+. I want to add the VFC sniper outer barrel but unfortunately it's 14-mm....I don't want to use a thread adapter either because it won't be an 18 inch barrel anymore.

Thanks in advance!

I'm a tad confused. Can the OpenBolt version of the scar take CO2 mags?

I have a closed bolt SCAR and only use CO2 mags with an NPAS. If I convert across to Open Bolt I still only want to use CO2.

Also, with the Open Bolt conversion, will I need to replace the NPAS?

Thanks
Tony

First off, yes you can use c02 mags with the open chamber system, but you would need to either buy the open bolt feed lips for all your mags or get new open bolt mags.

The npas for the open chamber system is different from the closed bolt system. You would need a new npas as well.

1. (Generalizations) The open bolt recoil is crisper and snappier than the closed bolt system. (IMO) from strongest/sharpest/loudest to softest/etc...PDW/SCAR/M4/M14/G39 (sorry, can't say for sure for L85/AK). The SCAR does "recoil" harder than the G39...but even the PDW only "recoils" like a 22LR :)

2. ALL GBBRs are temp sensitive. About 15deg C and you'll dump a mag...more so with the open bolt. NONE of them work very well in FA in the cold on propane. Semi is so-so in cold weather. CO2...semi isn't an issue, can't comment on CO2 on full auto in the sub-10deg weather.

3. It's somewhat of a moot point in practice. Most times you are faced with the opportunity to "take a break" and reload...where you would be silly not to top off with gas as well. Either a between sets break...or a resupply opportunity in a milsim. However, on propane, you'll usually get a mag and a half of BBs dependably...more with the open bolt. More with semi...less so with full auto.

4. Best to ask whomever you're buying from to confirm that batch right then and there. Also, with some setups that allow for barrel extensions...the short barrel may finish with one thread, and the tip of the extension might finish with the reverse.

The WE AK by far has the sharpest and strongest recoil of all their products so far but is offset with the lowest rate of fire as well. The L85 also has very strong recoil due to the size of the bolt. I would place the L85 third in recoil felt.

LOL this came a tad late :P I've been playing and dissembling my SCAR since I got it in March :P

For 2; the mags are still crap and I can't get blue gasket sealant in HK. Asked a friend to get me some from home depot or canadian tire here so I should get it once hes back for christmas :P

For 3, it's a moot point but I what I was trying to get at was if I were to modify the mags or gun such that the setup uses more gas than the stock gun the mags would still have sufficient gas to push out all 30 bbs. Actually speaking of the RATECH bolt I heard it's crap (through a friend who's been browsing ASC's other SCAR thread). The Gunsmodify one is lighter and should work better (also more aesthetically correct). I'm not sinking more money to the SCAR for now as I realised the ergonomics of the gun is not as suitable for me compared to an M4 (mostly the butt-stock being too concave, the tip of the stock digs into my chest too much). My money's being spent on AEG builds at the moment as I've been trying to do some crazy stuff with AEGs ever since I found out about their potential to shoot some 60 rps on a single sector build :D

For 4, I can confirm it's -14mm. I've attached the VFC long barrel extension and it fits, although the WE SCAR barrel is a lighter shade of grey (VFC's black) so you'll see some colouring issues where the 2 barrels meet (the gas block area).