what i mean is he had already our money, it could scared him and make him run away with our money. Thats what i thought when i read Illusion post. Anyway you're probably right and you know more than me. ;)

WOLFPACK WBAT received our M60's the other day. there was a delay but he let us know every step of the way what was happening and why. also provided tracking information as soon as it was in Canada and shipped. had no idea it was the same Greg... Don't really know what to say about that.... all I know is our patience seemed to pay off.

My advice is to not flood him with hate mail and dooms day bullshit. I would think that anyone facing the wrath of ASC members torches and forks high would only dive head in sand further. That means if your order was legit it might might now be compromised because his email, phone, PM box is melting...

ask once and wait a reasonable amount of time for a response. it is the weekend remember.

This whole thing raises an interesting issue in my mind, and since we're cleaning one skeleton from our collective closet, why not see if there are any more?

As some might still remember, a couple years ago, Anderson & Anderson supposedly short changed ASC members a number of guns in the group orders done by Raygis LasVegas through A&A. According to Raygis, this shortchange happened without the involvement of overseas retailer BS, A&A straight up chose to keep some of the ordered and paid for items. How come that episode never got documented in a Propscam-like forum? Too few guns involved, or was everything worked out behind the scenes?

It sickens me that some people knew his true identity and said nothing because they cared only about receiving their own guns, how selfish is that?

And to those saying "oh he's a good guy, I my gun with great communication bla bla bla" how good is he if he had to come back under a false name to conduct business. This isn't about "helping the community" this is about making a ton of profit, don't fool yourselves.

my thoughts exactly. i wished i knew more about that and whether or not it was resolved.

Does anyone know if Greg has logged onto the forum since ILLusion posted? Has he tried to contact the admins or mods, or any members for that matter?

Yep, he posted an update on the 18th. A day after everything has been said and Illusion posted in his thread saying the same thing.

And has he made an effort to answer the accusations against him?

I think it may have had something to do with the fact that there were a shitload more A&A supporters here on the forum (not going to mention names.. but I can think of a few people who constantly jumped to the defence of A&A -rather pointedly- when someone would make a complaint). Not to mention the fact that for a while even mentioning A&A was almost enough to get you banned because of the inevitable shitstorm that ensued.

That.

In the current spirit of accountability, I certainly hope the A&A case can be reopened and addressed. That is, if there indeed remains undelivered goods.

take him to court

To touch on what Saint brought up
earlier about A&A giving Raygis the
shaft on his group order—

This kind of thing seems to happen
more often all the time with retailers.
I've heard of a couple of cases where
someone is doing large orders and
when they run into an issue with the
CSBA or something else that stops
the toys from all making it, the then
trustworthy seller wants to fall off
the map and cut all ties. Would be
nice if ASC collected all the contact
info from a potential seller before
they become an authorized retailer
on ASC.

Can't do much about the guys off ASC
but we can try to do something about
the guys selling here, if it's not already
in place? Dragwindsor and couple guys
come to mind.

PS: I agree, A&A should own up

What everyone needs to understand is that we didn't just up and decide we were going to go after PropsCan one day: a situation arose where information and supporting evidence was presented to us, including the fact that the current group order might be going bad (delays etc), and an opportunity presented itself where we had some leverage to try and get the retailer to make good on his order. Given the seller's past history, we felt it was necessary.

As for A&A, Dragwindsor, and whomever else... if you have information and something we can use as leverage to make them deliver the goods then by all means please contact the staff with it. Otherwise we don't know any more than you do, and you can actually do more than we can by contacting RECOL.

Many people have taken steps to at least try and get some kind of resolution in their case (and some have succeeded), but there are others who just sit back going "omg halp us!" that really need to get off their ass and do something for themselves.

A number of things have been and are still being discussed relating to group orders, including outright banning them or obligating retailers conducting them to at least offer the use of an escrow service for their clients. But honestly banning them doesn't do much to advance airsoft or help the community, and retailers could offer the use of an escrow without us having to shove it down people's throats (part of the problem is a bunch of people will want to save the $15-20 for the escrow service and not make use of it anyway, so we're back to square one).

Well, the thing with A&A, is the Mark got the inventory in.. but decided to withhold it and sell it locally instead without refunding anything. After he "accidently" shipped me the wrong one, and then the one I ordered was magically no longer in stock, and after numerous delays of "Oh, I'll have it in a few weeks", updated inventory on his site saying it was in stock, then "Oh sorry, didn't get them in", it took me six fucking months to get a refund from him.